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Old 03-20-2017, 06:14 AM   #1
Lukas Berger
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Exclamation Negro Leagues database issues thread

Hi guys:

Please post any issues with the Negro Leagues db's here. Players importing multiple times, not importing, crazy ratings, wrong stats or other stuff like this. Spritze and Bigrod will do their best to respond and to fix and issues.

Thanks for your help in making OOTP better!
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:04 AM   #2
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Temporary players; reserve player in the starting lineup

I've started three different historical replay games with different years of Negro Leagues: 1920, 1921, 1941. In all of them, the AI uses temporary players ("Jim Unknown") as substitutes quite often, even when there are enough real players available on the active roster and in the lineups and depth charts.

Also, I found one player (Jim Brown, 1920 Chicago American Giants) somehow in the starting lineup while he was on the reserve roster. The active roster already had two healthy catchers. The box scores recorded Brown batting more than 600 times per game. The stats on his player card appeared to be normal.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:17 AM   #3
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I've started three different historical replay games with different years of Negro Leagues: 1920, 1921, 1941. In all of them, the AI uses temporary players ("Jim Unknown") as substitutes quite often, even when there are enough real players available on the active roster and in the lineups and depth charts. Turn ghost players off and he goes away.

Also, I found one player (Jim Brown, 1920 Chicago American Giants) somehow in the starting lineup while he was on the reserve roster. The active roster already had two healthy catchers. The box scores recorded Brown batting more than 600 times per game. The stats on his player card appeared to be normal.
The second one is a program bug and goes one level up from here.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:26 PM   #4
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Ok I found it
League Settings>Rules - check box under Minor League Settings (when MLB is the active screen).

Odd that it was checked as the default setting, and that the "ghosts" were often the first subs in a game. But unchecking made them go away, so I'm fine.

Thanks ghostbuster!
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:35 PM   #5
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Bill Foster and Willie Foster- Same player on Chicago American Giants

Imported a season in 1930 and have both Bill Foster and Willie 'Bill' Foster on the Chicago American Giants. Same player in real life and appears to be the same player in the game as well, same career statistics starting in 1923.

Chet Brewer of the Monarchs imported at 57 years of age, was born January 14, 1907.

Which Frank Duncan is in the database? There are two historical Frank Duncan's, Sr. and Jr. Kansas City has a player that doesn't appear to match to either of them. Frank Duncan Sr was born in 1888, Frank Duncan Jr was born February 14, 1901. In 1930, the Frank Duncan listed shows 1885 as his birth date and 45 years old with a career beginning in 1921. Looks like the 2 are kind of co-mingled.

Ben Taylor was born July 1, 1888, not July 1, 1887.

Rube Foster imports with 5 years of history pitching for the Boston Red Sox
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:33 PM   #6
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Imported a season in 1930 and have both Bill Foster and Willie 'Bill' Foster on the Chicago American Giants. Same player in real life and appears to be the same player in the game as well, same career statistics starting in 1923. Fixed

Chet Brewer of the Monarchs imported at 57 years of age, was born January 14, 1907. Fixed

Which Frank Duncan is in the database? Sr but no problem found There are two historical Frank Duncan's, Sr. and Jr. Kansas City has a player that doesn't appear to match to either of them. Frank Duncan Sr was born in 1888, Frank Duncan Jr was born February 14, 1901. In 1930, the Frank Duncan listed shows 1885 as his birth date and 45 years old with a career beginning in 1921. Looks like the 2 are kind of co-mingled.

Ben Taylor was born July 1, 1888, not July 1, 1887. Fixed

Rube Foster imports with 5 years of history pitching for the Boston Red Sox Different player, this is not the Rube you think it is.
The Duncans are not comingled in the database.
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Papa Bell View Post
Imported a season in 1930 and have both Bill Foster and Willie 'Bill' Foster on the Chicago American Giants. Same player in real life and appears to be the same player in the game as well, same career statistics starting in 1923.

Chet Brewer of the Monarchs imported at 57 years of age, was born January 14, 1907.

Which Frank Duncan is in the database? There are two historical Frank Duncan's, Sr. and Jr. Kansas City has a player that doesn't appear to match to either of them. Frank Duncan Sr was born in 1888, Frank Duncan Jr was born February 14, 1901. In 1930, the Frank Duncan listed shows 1885 as his birth date and 45 years old with a career beginning in 1921. Looks like the 2 are kind of co-mingled.

Ben Taylor was born July 1, 1888, not July 1, 1887.

Rube Foster imports with 5 years of history pitching for the Boston Red Sox
The Rube Foster that you're looking for is Andrew "Rube" Foster.
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Old 03-24-2017, 03:51 AM   #8
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Which Frank Duncan is in the database? There are two (THREE) historical Frank Duncan's, Sr. and Jr. and III Kansas City has a player that doesn't appear to match to either of them. Frank Duncan Sr was born in 1888, Frank Duncan Jr was born February 14, 1901. In 1930, the Frank Duncan listed shows 1885 as his birth date and 45 years old with a career beginning in 1921. Looks like the 2 are kind of co-mingled.
All three played at the same time and often on the same teams. It will take a while to de-mingle these. Probably will be fixed in the first patch or two. Just got "the third" unmingled successfully. Must have been interesting to have your son and grandson both playing with you.

De-mingled semi-successfully but Jr was born when Sr was 12?
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:44 PM   #9
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Nicknames

Would nicknames be something you'd like to add? I have a database of about 1,500 Negro League players that includes nicknames, date of birth/cit of birth if I could find it, positions, ratings, etc. I think I may have sent it to Markus, but a long time ago, like 2005 or so maybe!
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:54 PM   #10
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Thanks, wasn't sure since the Rube Foster that shows up isn't listed on a team and the MLB Rube Foster who pitched for the Red Sox ended his career in 1917.
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Would nicknames be something you'd like to add? I have a database of about 1,500 Negro League players that includes nicknames, date of birth/cit of birth if I could find it, positions, ratings, etc. I think I may have sent it to Markus, but a long time ago, like 2005 or so maybe!
Yes. PM me and I'll give you an e-mail to send it to.
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:53 PM   #12
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Thanks, on it's way. List is about 500 players that had nicknames. There may be others that the nickname was used as the first name so I will send those along as I come across them. Not all of them may have played in the Negro National League. Any other way I can help, just let me know, I've been at this since the mid 80's compiling Negro League info so willing to help.
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Old 03-24-2017, 04:11 PM   #13
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Jeepers, it gets even stranger with the Duncan! I had to blow the dust off a few books but from what I can see there were FOUR of them according to Riley.

Frank "Dunk" Duncan- born in 1888 was not related to the other 3 and played from 1909 to 1928. He was an outfielder who played for a number of teams, including the Philadelphia Giants, Leland Giants, Chicago American Giants (11-18), Detroit Stars (19) and Chicago Giants (in the database in 1920) and a number of other teams.

Frank Duncan Sr- Father of Junior and the III, he was the catcher that played and managed for a number of years during the 1890's and early 00's.

Frank Duncan Jr- born February 14, 1901 in Kansas City, Mo. He was the star catcher of the KC Monarchs and a number of other teams during the 20's through 40's.

Frank Duncan III- Son of Jr, played for KC during the 40's along with the Baltimore Elite Giants and some time in the MLB minors and the Mexican League in '57.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:02 PM   #14
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Frank "Dunk" Duncan- born in 1888 was not related to the other 3 and played from 1909 to 1928. He was an outfielder who played for a number of teams, including the Philadelphia Giants, Leland Giants, Chicago American Giants (11-18), Detroit Stars (19) and Chicago Giants (in the database in 1920) and a number of other teams. This is the one Seamheads lists as Sr

Frank Duncan Sr- Father of Junior and the III, he was the catcher that played and managed for a number of years during the 1890's and early 00's. Not found anywhere I can find

Frank Duncan Jr- born February 14, 1901 in Kansas City, Mo. He was the star catcher of the KC Monarchs and a number of other teams during the 20's through 40's. Matches seamheads

Frank Duncan III- Son of Jr, played for KC during the 40's along with the Baltimore Elite Giants and some time in the MLB minors and the Mexican League in '57. Matches Seamheads
Plus there are a couple of Caucasian Frank Duncan's floating about who played MiLB in 1941 and 1942.
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Old 04-03-2017, 02:43 PM   #15
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I can't seem to import Ray Brown (the Hall of Fame pitcher). I tried using his bb-ref ID (brown-003ray), but all I could get were his minor league stats -- no NeL stats at all. I also tried importing using the old Spritze ID (brownra00), but got nothing. I wound up importing him from the Spritze17 database instead.
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:12 PM   #16
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Here is the official in game ID list.
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File Type: csv NegroLeaguePlayerList.csv (198.5 KB, 113 views)
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:33 PM   #17
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Here is the official in game ID list.
Thanks for this. I see Brown is listed on this file as brown-ray006, an ID which is assigned to an entirely different NeL player named Ray Brown at bb-ref. Seamheads only lists one Ray Brown, though. That does lead to the question of who, then, is brown-ray003 on the database? Do these two players need to be combined?

Last edited by dewelar; 04-03-2017 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Clarify
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:56 PM   #18
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There are 9 Ray Browns in the database

Of the two you are referencing one is white and one is black and they were born 9 years apart so unless one crawled back into the womb at 9 years of age and changed color while he was in there I'd surmise they might be 2 different people.

BB-ref ID's are not used in most cases, neither are Seamheads nor Spritzes. OOTP uses its own ID's. Hence the list.

The next version of the Spritze db will match the OOTP IDs.
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Old 04-03-2017, 04:04 PM   #19
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There are 9 Ray Browns in the database

Of the two you are referencing one is white and one is black and they were born 9 years apart so unless one crawled back into the womb at 9 years of age and changed color while he was in there I'd surmise they might be 2 different people.

BB-ref ID's are not used in most cases, neither are Seamheads nor Spritzes. OOTP uses its own ID's. Hence the list.

The next version of the Spritze db will match the OOTP IDs.
Fair enough, then. Is there a similar file for the MiLB database? I assume there must be, since the OOTP IDs for neither of my Ray Browns matches bb-ref's. As for bb-ref's brown-006ray, I had no way of knowing he was white, since his only appearance came with the Chicago American Giants .
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:34 PM   #20
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Fair enough, then. Is there a similar file for the MiLB database? I assume there must be, since the OOTP IDs for neither of my Ray Browns matches bb-ref's. As for bb-ref's brown-006ray, I had no way of knowing he was white, since his only appearance came with the Chicago American Giants .
BB-ref ID's are not used in most cases. therefore brown-006ray is piffle.
Also meaningless. Also without meaning. Also having less than no meaning what so ever. Also fuh-ged-aboud-it.
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