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Old 04-15-2014, 03:37 PM   #1
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Using the Waivers System

Something I just discovered, which doesn't mean that someone else hasn't, so if this has been discussed before, I apologize.

I stumbled into the Waiver Wire on opening day and found that, in the process of cutting down their rosters, the AI teams had posted quite a few players of reasonable (2-3 star) quality that needed to be sent down, but were out of option years. Being my greedy little self, I nabbed four or five that seemed interesting, not realizing that I couldn't place them in the minors. Upon discovering my mistake, I took the highest rated player, a catcher, and, being flush with catchers at the time, I converted him into a 1B put him on the team, and he went from a 2/4 cacher to a 3/5 lineup anchor. The rest of them were mostly 2 star prospects so I traded them out for a couple of 3 star bench warmers. I had to unload them 4 at a time to get what I wanted, but I got them for free in the first place, so I came out way ahead, with 1 superstar player and 2 useful benchwarmers for zero cost.

Opening Day waivers is kind of like a Rule 5 draft only you don't get stuck will all the goods. Take the one or two guys that can potentially help your team, grab the rest and sell them off. Even if you have to unload them in batches, you'll still come out ahead.
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:30 PM   #2
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If you want to be challenged by the AI, you should never claim players on waivers.

If however, you want to dominate, then waiver claims are the surest road to victory.
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:16 PM   #3
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Yeah, it does feel like gaming the AI, although I was dominating pretty easily before then. It's the one thing I've found that is a definite loophole in the system. Hypothetically you could take every half-decent player on the list and trade them out for a handful of useful bodies.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:13 PM   #4
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I've had AI teams draft guys in the 1st round and then release them a few months later. I didn't go looking for them, but my minor league AI signed them to my system.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:19 PM   #5
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OOTP has definitely gotten better about this. In my solo fictional league, it's pretty rare that I'll see a player on waivers worth claiming. They may look decent, but a closer inspect of their stats usually reveals them to be duds. Or at least, not better than the player they'd be replacing.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:30 PM   #6
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The discrepancy between how the AI values a player available for free on waivers and a player you shop around is one of my bigger pet peeves of OOTP.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth View Post
OOTP has definitely gotten better about this. In my solo fictional league, it's pretty rare that I'll see a player on waivers worth claiming. They may look decent, but a closer inspect of their stats usually reveals them to be duds. Or at least, not better than the player they'd be replacing.
The thing is though, that if you get a bunch with mediocre ratings and trade them away for even 1 or 2 decent players, you're ahead because you got those 1 or 2 for pretty much nothing. Trade em right out of your DFA box and you don't even have to mess with your roster. I traded 5 scrubs for a decent backup shortstop.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questdog View Post
If you want to be challenged by the AI, you should never claim players on waivers.

If however, you want to dominate, then waiver claims are the surest road to victory.
What I do is turn off option years. I let the AI not screw it up but I obey the 3 yr rule.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth View Post
OOTP has definitely gotten better about this. In my solo fictional league, it's pretty rare that I'll see a player on waivers worth claiming. They may look decent, but a closer inspect of their stats usually reveals them to be duds. Or at least, not better than the player they'd be replacing.
Maybe so...but the AI sucks at roster management en todos. The problem is that too much time is spent on sizzle (3-D) and not enough on steak (AI).
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter93 View Post
The thing is though, that if you get a bunch with mediocre ratings and trade them away for even 1 or 2 decent players, you're ahead because you got those 1 or 2 for pretty much nothing. Trade em right out of your DFA box and you don't even have to mess with your roster. I traded 5 scrubs for a decent backup shortstop.
It has been well known for a while that doing anything more then 2 for 1 will result in being able to game the AI. Doing a 5-1 is just not fair to the AI. When trading the game assigns a "point"value to each player in the deal, add enough warm bodies and eventually the scale will tip and the AI accepts the deal.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn View Post
Maybe so...but the AI sucks at roster management en todos. The problem is that too much time is spent on sizzle (3-D) and not enough on steak (AI).
I don't know if you're trying to be funny, trolling or really mean this but it truly offends me that you would say that, having seen how hard Markus works on the AI during Beta (not to mention the rest of the year). 3D has not taken Markus' time, as he mentioned in another thread, he hired Jorin for that.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by DCG12 View Post
It has been well known for a while that doing anything more then 2 for 1 will result in being able to game the AI. Doing a 5-1 is just not fair to the AI. When trading the game assigns a "point"value to each player in the deal, add enough warm bodies and eventually the scale will tip and the AI accepts the deal.
Yeah, this is something that as a new player, I'm only now discovering. Trades can be frustrating, but if you can pile enough warm bodies on the plate the AI will snack on em.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn View Post
Maybe so...but the AI sucks at roster management en todos. The problem is that too much time is spent on sizzle (3-D) and not enough on steak (AI).
AI doesn't suck in my leagues. Slim Pickens on the waiver wire all year round. The only team who may lose a player or two is me and that is how it should be.

I see turning off waivers and/or messing with other roster rules as a huge exploit for the human player.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:28 PM   #14
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Maybe so...but the AI sucks at roster management en todos. The problem is that too much time is spent on sizzle (3-D) and not enough on steak (AI).
I'm sorry but that's a load of BS plain and simple.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:34 PM   #15
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Here's my concern about this...if there are no limits to your waiver picks, (except maybe money), you can still snap them up in bulk and use them as trade fodder and thereby win a glaring advantage over the AI. One of many, I suppose, but this one seems especially ripe for exploitation, and I'm not sure that's a positive thing.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JCarter93 View Post
Here's my concern about this...if there are no limits to your waiver picks, (except maybe money), you can still snap them up in bulk and use them as trade fodder and thereby win a glaring advantage over the AI. One of many, I suppose, but this one seems especially ripe for exploitation, and I'm not sure that's a positive thing.
Except as some of us have pointed out, this doesn't happen to everyone. OTOH not having waivers allows human players to hoard players. If this is combined with no Rule 5 draft as some also suggest the game can become a joke.
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:04 PM   #17
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Except as some of us have pointed out, this doesn't happen to everyone. OTOH not having waivers allows human players to hoard players. If this is combined with no Rule 5 draft as some also suggest the game can become a joke.
I get it. I'm not saying I'm going to disable waivers or the Rule 5 draft. I'm just saying it's kind of a loophole in the system.

Speaking of history, does anyone know how/if MLB has rules that prevent this sort of thing? Looting the waivers system and trying to trade your claims off, and cutting them if they don't move?
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn View Post
Maybe so...but the AI sucks at roster management en todos. The problem is that too much time is spent on sizzle (3-D) and not enough on steak (AI).
How much time was spent on 3D vs. AI, since you have a time sheet of developer time spent per feature per day? I guess?
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by DCG12 View Post
I don't know if you're trying to be funny, trolling or really mean this but it truly offends me that you would say that, having seen how hard Markus works on the AI during Beta (not to mention the rest of the year). 3D has not taken Markus' time, as he mentioned in another thread, he hired Jorin for that.
Yeah...you're right. I was way too harsh.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:14 PM   #20
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In MLB this does not happen because of the fact that baseball contracts are guaranteed. You take a player off waivers you assume the remainder of his contract. If you cannot trade him you end up eating that contract if you cut him. The waiver system is a way to cut a player and not have the burden of the contact if someone claims and takes him. Financially it makes no sense to sign a bunch of waiver picks in real life if you do not have a need for them.
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