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FHM 5 - General Discussion Talk about the latest & greatest FHM, officially licensed by the NHL!

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Old 03-08-2019, 10:26 AM   #1
JCourtney
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Question Is 2D planned for FHM6?

Are they planning on adding in the 2D live view in the next version of the game?

I've not made the switchover to FHM from EHM yet, as I've been waiting for the 2D live view during the game.

Is it something the engine can't do with how it does the calculations or have they said it's something they would like to be able to do anyway?
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:49 AM   #2
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Unlikely for FHM6. We've been working on some experimental things regarding a 2D mode that are looking promising in the long term, but it'd be too much to get done in time for FHM6, if proves workable at all. It'll require an almost total replacement of the engine that produces the game simulation, in addition to developing the animation methods for the 2D view.
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Old 03-10-2019, 08:14 AM   #3
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The lack of a 2D view is the single biggest issue I have with FM5. The game does a bunch of things pretty well, but you are essentially playing with a spread sheet. Game day experience is tedious and I can't imagine anyone spending much time on it. No way of assessing how a team or player is performing except by reviewing lots of stats. I like stats, but after a while the lack of any other connection to hockey makes it feel very incomplete.

2D and 3D graphics for hockey simulations were developed and available 30 years ago (Wayne Gretzky hockey), which is ancient times for computer gaming. It amazes me that OOTP is unable or unwilling to incorporate this feature in FM5 and, apparently, also in FM6. Until that happens, EHM, with its relatively modest 2D view, will remain the preferred alternative for most players.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:08 AM   #4
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It amazes me that you could be unable or unwilling to read the programmer's entire post where he mentions that they are actively working on it. Until that happens, other members, with their modestly positive and productive dialog, will remain the preferred alternative for most posters.

(I don't have any data to back that last comment up, but I made it anyway.)
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julius View Post
The lack of a 2D view is the single biggest issue I have with FM5. The game does a bunch of things pretty well, but you are essentially playing with a spread sheet. Game day experience is tedious and I can't imagine anyone spending much time on it. No way of assessing how a team or player is performing except by reviewing lots of stats. I like stats, but after a while the lack of any other connection to hockey makes it feel very incomplete.
Now, I would be the happiest man on heart if FHM had 2D, but I think that here you are extraordinarily exaggerating the importance of the visualization on performance evaluation.
Can you tell me how you can differently evaluate performance in these two cases?
A) You closely watch a 2D animation of a player who skates to the back of the net, gets the puck in the slot for a rushing forward who one-times it in.
B) You read in FHM:
Player A gets to the Gretzky's office.
Player A controls the puck behind the net.
Player A sends the puck in the slot.
Player B one-times it.
GOAL! for Team !

In both cases - admitting that having a 2D view would be more awesome than hot croissants on a lazy Sunday morning -, how do you evaluate for example how the goalie reacted to the shot? How do you evaluate whether the defensemen were playing a correct positioning coverage? Sometimes, in "the other hockey manager" you have the regen of Chris Pronger on your team, yet they score on you when he is for example wandering behind the net when the action is in front. Does this mean anything? Pronger can be wandering there for whatever reason - not less importantly the fact that it may be a mere visualization mistake - yet you have no clue and the game assigns him a rating of 9.00.
And this is just an example. Stats exist for a reason. If watching a game would be enough, we wouldn't have advanced stats in real hockey.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:16 AM   #6
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EHM's 2D engine, altough nice to have, seems to display stuff that don't always match the simulated events. I'd like to see a view of the presumed positions of each player for all tactics, in relation to where the puck is, similar to what's in EHM though. Instead of a worded description that doesn't give you the whole picture as to where and how player's will try to position themselves.
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:51 PM   #7
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Alessandro,

Let's assume that I am advocating for a reasonably accurate 2D view, not one that has obvious errors.

If we do have a reasonably accurate 2D view, and we are using your example, it will certainly be possible to see if the defencemen were playing with the proper positioning. If the forward receiving the pass is uncovered, a 2D view will show this. If the defending forwards should have been playing lower, this can be seen. If the center, whose job it is to assist in covering the front of the net failed his assignment-that can also be observed. Perhaps defensive coverage was excellent throughout, and the goal was simply a great effort by the goal scorer. We can sense this from a 2D view-certainly not from the play by play account or from the stats. I could go on at some length on this topic, but it all seems fairly obvious.

I note your Pronger example and certainly agree that seeing him wandering behind the net for no apparent reason would be unhelpful. And I also agree with you and kokid90 that the EHM 2D view needs to be improved. But I am not advocating for an inaccurate 2D view any more than I would propose inaccurate stats. This is an issue of execution, not theory. I could discount as an error the fact that Pronger is behind the net for no apparent reason if I see this in a 2D view. Are you able to do the same for an inaccurate stat? For example, if Pronger's defensive rating should have been 6.00 rather than 9.00, how would you know?

There are certain sports, such as baseball, perhaps also football, where stats can provide a pretty good picture of what has happened. Hockey and soccer are different. Stats, advanced or otherwise, supplement our understanding of these sports, but watching them is the only way to fully appreciate them.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:17 PM   #8
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2d is not game-breaker for me, but it would be cool to have it. I am ready to wait and hopefully they will implement it when they will be 101% sure it will work properly.

I have confidence in development team

Last edited by croatian; 03-10-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR View Post
Unlikely for FHM6. We've been working on some experimental things regarding a 2D mode that are looking promising in the long term, but it'd be too much to get done in time for FHM6, if proves workable at all. It'll require an almost total replacement of the engine that produces the game simulation, in addition to developing the animation methods for the 2D view.
This is an understandable situation. But perhaps there are some much easier options that could be implemented that would be welcomed by those of us who like to see some "ice-level" dynamics as a game is played. For example, it would be great to bring back a display that shows players currently on the ice for BOTH teams, and also an indication of how many goals on the season for the player who has just scored a goal.
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Old 04-02-2019, 03:23 PM   #10
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I'd like to echo Croatian's post. Actual game play is great, I think it's where FHM is heading. But if Jeff asked y advice there are other things I'd really like to see improved over expending all the effort live action, even 2D action would require.

In case you were wondering Jeff for me it's PbP. What we have is really great. But more would be better. More verbiage, more variations, more intelligent commentary of game situations. A quick blurb on how the defense is set up, what's the offense formation, who is setting up in front of the net while the defenseman handles the puck on the blue line? Without the live game play component the PbP text is how we consume FHM. No effort there is ever wasted! Give us more!

Last edited by Mr. Marlin; 04-02-2019 at 03:25 PM.
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