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Old 06-05-2018, 11:43 AM   #1
redtiger7
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How to tell how well a player plays defensively

So I had a player win best defensive forward, and can't for the life of me figure out why. Even amungst his own teammates, he was nowheres near the top when it came to hits, shots blocked, +/-, and his DR was a measly 53.
And then it occured to me that I have no way of judging if a player is doing a good job defensively or not. Do we look at +/-, DR, hits....?
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Old 06-05-2018, 12:42 PM   #2
maikgianino
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I can relate with that totally.
I see those details every single season I finish.

Most of the awards given to players are nonsense.
Mostly offensive players receiving MVP awards with 32 points, when there are other players with over 70 points and so. I play in the SPHL.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:12 AM   #3
JeffR
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The biggest factors in the defensive forward award are the player's defensive ratings, the role he's used in, how much he plays, plus-minus, and shorthanded performance, although they don't all contribute in the same way - e.g. plus-minus is used to screen out players with really bad +/- numbers and has an upper limit on how much it can contribute to the award calculation. There's also a small scoring component, since despite the award definition the Selke usually goes to somebody who scores a significant amount.

The defensive game rating is probably the best way to evaluate how a player is doing defensively in the context of his role on your team and your system, as long as you look at it relative to your other players. It encompasses (in addition to the regular defensive stats like blocks, etc.) a lot of small stats that aren't tracked on an ongoing basis - getting to loose pucks, taking defensive zone faceoffs, allowing the other team to shoot, etc.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:57 AM   #4
redtiger7
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But doesn't the game rating only apply to how well he fulfills his assigned role? For example, if he's set to grinder, but scores no goals, he'll have a low rating. But if he's checking all over the place, playing great defensively, then won't that NOT show up in the game rating, since his role is to get into corners and grab the puck?
So is it really a good indicator, or an indicator that he can't fulfil the role assigned?
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Old 06-07-2018, 01:34 AM   #5
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Yes, but there are still things that can lower the score even if he's doing a lot of things right. If he's constantly playing against an opponent's best players, for example, that's probably going to hurt his score - they'll accomplish more offensively than fourth-liners would, and those things will drag his score down from what it'd be against perfectly average opponents. Eventually I'd like to have the GR system compensate for quality of opponents (and teammates), but that gets into complex questions about how much of a player's performance in a team game should be exclusively attributable to him on an individual level. If I had easy and accurate answers to that, I'd be selling them to an NHL team for a lot more than $39.99.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:56 PM   #6
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Defensive forward rating has always been a pain for SIM games. EHM has had this issue for years, IIRC
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickphillies View Post
Defensive forward rating has always been a pain for SIM games. EHM has had this issue for years, IIRC
Not to mention real life. Valid defensive stats are just difficult to create in a sport like hockey; we can cheat a bit by building them to make use of in-game results that are handled at an abstract level in the game engine, but that doesn't fix the context issue.
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