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OOTP 19 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 10-09-2018, 09:47 PM   #1
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Willie Mays- Homerun King!

A few other possible titles for this thread:
Rogers Hornsby- All Time Hits Leader or
Tommy John- First (and so far, only) major league pitcher with 300 career wins, or
Mookie Betts- Hall of Famer, or
Marcell Ozuna- Hall of Famer, or
get this,
Pedro Astacio- Hall of Famer.

To set the stage: a while ago I set up a few Historical Random Debut saves but haven't done much with either since. But then, as part of a process I am setting up for my primary fictional save (reported on here in the Fictional Simulation folder) I decided I needed an environment to test out some fictional created players before using the templates for their ratings in my W.P. Kinsella fictional league. (Long story short-they are part of a process to create relatives of current WPK players who will also be professional ballplayers and might one day play in the WPK themselves.)

So, I've moved forward, with these fictional creations inserted in batches (about every 20 years apart) into this HRD, which I gave a start date of 1947, up to the beginning of the year 2000 now. While not strictly an historic simulation, this league is still predominantly populated by historic MLB players and is set up to mirror the progression of the MLB in terms of teams and structure and statistical modifiers, etc.

And while it has proven a great testing ground for my created/edited players, I am also finding myself fascinated by how the historical players are sorting themselves out.

So, back to the title of the thread. At this point Willie Mays holds the MLB career HR record at 708. Granted, there has been no Babe Ruth yet, no Ted Williams, no Willie McCovey, no Barry Bonds, no Mark McGwire, etc., etc. Unfortunately, Hank Aaron was in the original group of players and started his career at the age of 31. He had some fine years but finished his career with just 169 HR's and his top single season saw him hit 42 (at age 34.)
You will see the top of the career best list below. Numbers 2, 8, and 11 were created players based upon the Super-Star template for created relatives in my WPK. You can see that among current players (meaning currently still playing in this league, not current IRL), J.D. Martinez (well, he's current either way) is the closest to the top of the list. But J.D. is 39 years old here and won't be challenging any records. Tied at 20th though are a 34-year old (Frank Robinson) and a 35-year old (the surprising Don Demeter) with 461 long balls each. Almost no chance they challenge Mays, but Robinson in particular could move well up this list. (And is pretty much already a sure HOF'er.)

What's crazy about Mays here though, to me, is that he didn't win a single Gold Glove award. How is that possible? (I'll have to do a bit more research to see what contemporary might have been beating him out.)

Oh, and Hornsby? He played from 1957 through 1981 and collected 4,356 career hits. Current player, Ty Cobb, at age 42, isn't far behind at 4,073. But not likely that Cobb has enough left in him to catch Hornsby.

Tommy John, who retired just a few seasons ago (1996) with 303 wins, is the only member of the 300 win club thus far. But at 31 and still going strong, and having ended the 1999 season with 201 career wins, Pedro Martinez could join the club eventually.

And what about Betts, Ozuna, and Astacio? (And others: George Foster, Felipe Alou, Cleon Jones, Cliff Lee, Gary Peters, Jose Rijo, Reggie Smith, Rusty Staub, Jim Wynn- all Hall-of-Famers). Well, let's save that for another post.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:24 PM   #2
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And Ty Cobb picks up a grand total of....15 hits in the 2000 season. And, though he doesn't seem inclined to retire yet, he enters the 2001 with a broken bone in his elbow and not expected to be recovered until well into the 2001 season. Looks like toast to me.
Not that a career with 4,088 hits, 922 stolen bases, and 339 HR's is too shabby. With a career batting average of .357. And 4 MVP awards. And 14 All-Star selections.
Time to pack it up Ty and walk into the Hall of Fame in five years.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:37 PM   #3
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And, following the 2003 season, we have a new all-time wins leader in Jose Fernandez, at 307. At age 40 now, he limped to the finish line on this one, having won just 21 games over the past 3 seasons.
Still, HOF career.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:28 PM   #4
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And Slammin' Sammy joins the 600 club at the age of 34. Sammy Sosa might have a real chance to threaten the all-time HR record and is pretty sure a Hall-of-Famer.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:14 PM   #5
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Speaking of the 600 club, veteran leftfielder Frank Robinson has put up some great late-career numbers the past few years and now is second all-time in HR's with 645. Probably not enough time left to catch Mays, but a great career and a sure Hall-of-Famer.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdWatcher View Post

And what about Betts, Ozuna, and Astacio? (And others: George Foster, Felipe Alou, Cleon Jones, Cliff Lee, Gary Peters, Jose Rijo, Reggie Smith, Rusty Staub, Jim Wynn- all Hall-of-Famers). Well, let's save that for another post.
Cleon Jones?!?!? a Hall of Famer?!?! as a die hard Mets fan that is really nice to see
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:43 PM   #7
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Cleon Jones?!?!? a Hall of Famer?!?! as a die hard Mets fan that is really nice to see
I'll focus on this a bit more soon, but there have been some great surprises in that regard thus far.
Pretty much all players who had some nice seasons in real life and even solid careers, but nowhere near HOF standards.

The most recent addition to the Hall (at, IIRC, the end of the 2005 season) is John Mayberry. Granted, Mayberry finished his career in this save just under the 600 HR mark. Still, the HOF classes the past few years have been a bit weak so no sure-thing guys for him to compete with. Should be some great classes coming up soon.

Anyway, when I get home later I will post some screenshots of Cleon Jones career for you.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:57 PM   #8
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Let's take a look at Hall-of-Famer Cleon Jones.
Jones admittedly did not have sure-thing HOF credentials. His career was a bit short at 14 seasons, largely due to a series of injuries, including a few concussions during the 1984 season, some recurring back issues, and finally, at the age of 37, a torn quadriceps muscle. But the fact is that his major league career was over long before that, as with declining performance he played minimally at the major league level in 1986-1987 and for the last three years of his professional career played only at AAA. An odd ending to what would eventually turn out to be a HOF career.

It did start well though, as Jones was awarded the American League Rookie-of-the-Year honor at age 20 in 1974. Playing for the Kansas City Royals, who signed him as the 7th pick overall in the 1972 draft, he had one of the biggest highlights of his career in 1978, as he led his team to the Championship, including being named the World Series MVP. A few other highlights for Jones: a 34-game hitting streak in his rookie season, a 32-game hitting streak and a 21-game hitting streak in 1980, and another hitting streak of 23 games in 1981. He also hit for the cycle on 08/27/1979. His best year as Royal was also his final season with his original team, as he led the league in batting average (.377), hits (241), doubles (52), and WAR (9.8) in the 1980 season and then, as a Free Agent, signed a 7-year 9.26M contract with the Cleveland Indians. Things got off to a good start with his new team, also, and Jones won his lone league MVP award in 1982. But the last three seasons of this contract saw the Indians get very little value out of the HOF rightfielder.

It took six tries, but in 1998 Jones was elected to the HOF with just enough votes (75.3%) along with Warren Spahn (85.1%) and Felipe Alou (75.0%).

And that, in a nutshell, is the story of Cleon Jones, Hall-of-Famer!
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:01 AM   #9
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The 2006 season saw the setting of a new single-season HR record in MLB. Twenty-six year old San Francisco leftfielder Ken Williams clubbed 69 homeruns on the year to surpass previous record-holder Roger Maris (yup, isn't that interesting), who had set the record in 1999 as a member of the Chicago Cubs when he collected 65 long ones.
1999 was also the season when the American League single-season record was established by Sammy Sosa (playing then for the Kansas City Royals) who hit 64 that year.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:18 AM   #10
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And the latest inductee into the MLB Hall-of-Fame is the great Toronto Blue Jay's leftfielder Carl Yastrzemski. Yaz collected over 3000 hits and over 400 HR's in his long career (20 seasons). He was the 1985 A.L. MVP when he led the league in walks, slugging percentage, OPS, and WAR. He was an important member of the 1990 Toronto world champion team. He was a 5-time All-Star, won 2 gold glove awards and 3 silver sluggers.

At the time of this writing, Yaz is tied with Charlie Gehringer for the 34th best career WAR among position players at 78.4.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:53 PM   #11
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It should come as no surprise that Ty Cobb enters the Hall-of-Fame his first time on the ballot with 99.3% of the voters including him.
Cobb only hit 4147 hits with a life-time batting average of .355, holds the single season batting average record with a .419 in 1994 (he also hit .400 in 1993.) He is the career leader in doubles with 761, second in stolen bases at 925 (and first in caught stealing at 355), and sixth all-time in WAR at 131.6.

He is a 4-time MVP, 14-time All-Star, 9-time Silver Slugger.

He was a no doubt Hall-of-Famer and joins Ewell Blackwell (class of 1992) and Reggie Jackson (class of 1997) in representing the San Diego Padres in Cooperstown.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:57 PM   #12
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The 300 win club has a new member- 42 year old Eddie Cicotte, who finishes the 2007 season with 304 career wins. Cicotte has not yet announced his retirement and is currently a free agent. So it remains to be seen whether he will have a chance to get the 7 more wins he would need to overtake Jose Fernandez as the career wins leaders in MLB history.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:44 PM   #13
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In the 2008 season Karl Spooner tossed a perfect game against the Colorado Rockies as a member of the Arizona Diamondbacks.
Apparently the Rockies decided to do the only thing they could to make sure that this didn't happen again in 2009- they signed him as a Free Agent at the end of the season.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:01 PM   #14
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The 2008 Hall-of-Fame class features catcher Joe Mauer, in his third year on the ballot, with 81.2% of the voters naming him, and third baseman Bob Bailey, with 77.8% in his second year on the ballot.

Mauer, who played most of his 20-year career in Boston, won 4 gold gloves, was a 7-time All-Star, won 2 Silver Slugger awards, and helped two different teams win a Championship, including being named WS MVP in leading the Red Sox to the 1985 crown, and in 1999, his second to last MLB season, helped the Anaheim Angels win their second of three franchise championships (they won in 1975, as the California Angels, and in 2007 (over the Colorado Rockies, wouldn't you know) as the Los Angeles Angels.)

Bailey largely made it to the Hall on the basis of his 461 longball career. He was an 8-time All-Star, won 5 Silver Slugger Awards, and was a member of one championship team, the 1994 Cleveland Indians. During that 1994 season Bailey led the league in both HR's (46) and RBI (161.)
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:37 PM   #15
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Speaking of championships, who are the New York Yankees in this Bizarro MLB.
(Why Bizarro you might ask? Well, here is one reason. Jose Bizarro- Hall-of-Famer and still the career leader in triples, with 233, and stolen bases, with 970. Fictional member of this MLB universe.)

So, in this Bizarro MLB universe the Yankees are actually the Cleveland Indians. In 61 seasons, the Indians have walked away with 10 championships (1948, 1965, 1966, 1971, 1974, 1977, 1979, 1994, 1995, 2008.) Incidentally, in their history the Indians have a .552 winning percentage- 5480 wins to 4454 losses. They have been in the playoffs 25 times. They have finished under .500 14 seasons out of 61. Their worst record came in 1954 (Bizarro universe!) when they went 56-98. They have won 100 or more games 16 times, with their best record in 1994 when they went 113-49. This was the first of four straight season with 100 or more wins, culminating in a 112-win 1997 season. (They then won 96 in 1998 and came back with 107 in 1999, and another 106 in 2001 after a mere 93 wins in 2000.) The mighty Indians are the team that all American League fans who don't live in Ohio have grown up learning to hate.

The American League has mostly dominated in terms of championships, and the Boston Red Sox are second with 6 (1954,1962, 1985, 1997, 2002, 2003.) (The A.L. has 37 championships to 24 for the N.L.)

And, in true Bizarro fashion, the National League best belongs to the Chicago Cubs, with 4 crowns (1947,1956, 1969!, 1998.)
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:40 PM   #16
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A pair of great pitchers form the Hall-of-Fame class of 2010.
Jose Fernandez, who finished his career with the most wins of any pitcher in (this) history at 310, gets 96% of the vote in his first year on the ballot to easily be enshrined.
John Smoltz, who pitched for at least parts of 22 seasons, most of them with his original team, the Chicago Cubs, was an 8-time All-Star and helped two teams win championships (the Cubs in 1998 and the Rangers in 2000.)
He was named on 88.8% of the ballots to be inducted on his first try.

A few who didn't quite make it: Rickey Henderson who got 61.9% in his third year on the ballot, and Lymon Bystock who in his first year on the ballot received 56.5%.

Some significant players who dropped off the ballot due to insufficient suppport included Manny Machado (3rd year, 3.2%), Herb Score (3rd year, 4.3%, Dan Haren (3rd year, 2.9%), and Curt Flood (1st year, 2.2%).
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:44 PM   #17
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During the same season that Jose Fernandez is inducted into the Hall-of-Fame, he is knocked out of his top spot for career wins as we have a new member of the 300 club who now has the most pitcher wins in history at 316 and is still going pretty strong at age 38 (he will turn 39 early in the 2011 season.) (Okay, I guess he actually joined the 300 club during the 2009 season, but I think I missed that.)
And his name is....Greg Maddux.
So.
I guess that's not really a big surprise.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:48 AM   #18
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I think its awesome that Maddux was able to resemble some sort of ability to pitch at an older age, I'm curious to see if he makes it into his 40's
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Old 10-24-2018, 10:56 AM   #19
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I think its awesome that Maddux was able to resemble some sort of ability to pitch at an older age, I'm curious to see if he makes it into his 40's
I'll keep you posted once I move this one ahead again.
Thanks for following along.
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