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Old 10-12-2018, 12:25 AM   #21
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I don't really care either way to be honest. I don't care what he says or does. In my opinion, it's not abuse. In yours it is. We will agree to disagree.

Edit: I also think if it was SO abusive someone would have said something to him. No one said a word. Not one single person. I wouldn't tolerate being "abused" by a co-worker. Would you?

That's all.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:59 AM   #22
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I don't really care either way to be honest. I don't care what he says or does. In my opinion, it's not abuse. In yours it is. We will agree to disagree.

Edit: I also think if it was SO abusive someone would have said something to him. No one said a word. Not one single person. I wouldn't tolerate being "abused" by a co-worker. Would you?

That's all.
Because, again, it is normal in sports. Normal does not keep it from being abusive. Hazing is normal in the military. Doesn't mean it isn't abusive. Bullying is normal in grade school. Doesn't mean it isn't abusive. Actors & actresses having to sleep w/movie execs to get work is normal. Doesn't keep it from being abusive.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:28 PM   #23
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Because, again, it is normal in sports. Normal does not keep it from being abusive. Hazing is normal in the military. Doesn't mean it isn't abusive. Bullying is normal in grade school. Doesn't mean it isn't abusive. Actors & actresses having to sleep w/movie execs to get work is normal. Doesn't keep it from being abusive.
Maybe at one time, but none of that is considered "normal" any longer. They are heinous acts. Hazing in the military now gets you a dishonorable discharge. Bullying is nowhere near tolerated to the level it was when I was in school. I know this because I was bullied mercilessly. From grade 6 until I quit the day I turned 16. Bullying now earns you a suspension or expulsion. While sleeping with execs WAS normal at one time, now it is sexual harassment and you will lose your job. You will NEVER convince me saying "you effen need me" is abuse. Didn't he then take 4 scrubs off the bench and scrimmage the rest of the team, and destroy them? Kind of proved he was right didn't he? Actually, not even "kind of". He did without a doubt prove he was right. And again, if his teammates thought they were being abused, they would have responded and not tolerated it.

And as I stated before, but you gnored like my last sentence above, trash talking occurs in EVERY practice and in EVERY game. Trash talking is normal. So using your logic, wouldn't that be "abusive"? Saying "you can't effen stop me" or similar, and then proving it basket after basket, is "abusive"? Give me a break.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:51 PM   #24
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Yes. I am looking forward to dredging up that musty "Anyone else watching the Knicks?" thread and having some good things to say for a change! (If so, it would be the result, of course, of having very low expectations. )
I was making my NBA over/under bets and your teams was one of my best bets for a 'under'
Vegas has them at 31.5 wins and I think they have no incentive to compete this year.
I am not saying they will throw games, but I expect them to play their young guys a lot. Maybe run out Noah since they are paying him anyways.
Lots of Knox and Robinson and Ntilikina.

Your team will be pretty terrible and Porzingis is not expected back until Jan/Feb.
If your team is already 10 games out of the 8th seed by that point I would not be surprised if they simply shut him down for all the season and worked to build up that knee back to strength.

Just focus on next offseason and do what you can to free up cap space. Maybe frame Tim Hardaway Jr for a murder?
Produce documents showing Noah is a member of ISIS?

Whatever you can do to get off bad contracts and hope you land a good draft pick next June.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:54 PM   #25
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Edit: I also think if it was SO abusive someone would have said something to him. No one said a word. Not one single person. I wouldn't tolerate being "abused" by a co-worker. Would you?

That's all.
They did cancel practice the next day which is very unusual this close to the season. The front office also had to calm down several players before they had a mutiny on their hands.

That team is a mess. Its a fun mess but a mess none the less.
I am sort of hoping they keep him just so we have the chaos to follow.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:14 PM   #26
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Maybe at one time, but none of that is considered "normal" any longer. They are heinous acts.
Which proves the point I was making. Normalcy does not change it from being abusive. The only organizations that allow the kind of talk Butler was spitting out is sports. A report of doing it just once would get someone sent to HR. Repeated offenses would result in termination. Because it is considered abusive.


Quote:
Hazing in the military now gets you a dishonorable discharge.
Just because it is now illegal does not mean it was never abusive.

Quote:
Bullying is nowhere near tolerated to the level it was when I was in school. I know this because I was bullied mercilessly. From grade 6 until I quit the day I turned 16. Bullying now earns you a suspension or expulsion.
Again, just because it is punished now, does not mean it wasn't abusive. Just because it is less common does not mean it wasn't abusive.


Quote:
While sleeping with execs WAS normal at one time, now it is sexual harassment and you will lose your job.
This was always considered abuse. Maybe no one wanted to admit it happened. Maybe it wasn't widely broadcasted. But if anyone was known to do this it was always punishable.

Quote:
Didn't he then take 4 scrubs off the bench and scrimmage the rest of the team, and destroy them? Kind of proved he was right didn't he? Actually, not even "kind of". He did without a doubt prove he was right.
The abuse doesn't disappear just because what was said was true.

Quote:
And again, if his teammates thought they were being abused, they would have responded and not tolerated it.
So when you were sadly bullied, if you didn't try to stop it, then you couldn't say you were being abused?

Quote:
And as I stated before, but you gnored like my last sentence above, trash talking occurs in EVERY practice and in EVERY game. Trash talking is normal. So using your logic, wouldn't that be "abusive"? Saying "you can't effen stop me" or similar, and then proving it basket after basket, is "abusive"? Give me a break.
I didn't ignore it. I said from the beginning, it was normal.

As far as the last part, I would use the "all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles" cliche. Trash talking can be harmless, but some goes beyond acceptable. Bragging about your abilities I wouldn't call abuse. But demeaning another is. That's where Butler would have crossed the line if the reports are true.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:52 PM   #27
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Which proves the point I was making. Normalcy does not change it from being abusive. The only organizations that allow the kind of talk Butler was spitting out is sports. A report of doing it just once would get someone sent to HR. Repeated offenses would result in termination. Because it is considered abusive.


Just because it is now illegal does not mean it was never abusive.

Again, just because it is punished now, does not mean it wasn't abusive. Just because it is less common does not mean it wasn't abusive.




This was always considered abuse. Maybe no one wanted to admit it happened. Maybe it wasn't widely broadcasted. But if anyone was known to do this it was always punishable.



The abuse doesn't disappear just because what was said was true.



So when you were sadly bullied, if you didn't try to stop it, then you couldn't say you were being abused?


I didn't ignore it. I said from the beginning, it was normal.

As far as the last part, I would use the "all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles" cliche. Trash talking can be harmless, but some goes beyond acceptable. Bragging about your abilities I wouldn't call abuse. But demeaning another is. That's where Butler would have crossed the line if the reports are true.
Of course I tried to "stop it". Which got me an even worse beating than the normal 3 or 4 I would get EVERY DAY. They said nothing to him. Maybe the next day they did. Fine. But why wouldn't they as it was happening if it was SO bad as you claim? What Butler did is nowhere near the level of the other actions you described. Most of which are also illegal, by the way.

Like I said. I will not change your mind. You will not change mine. We will agree to disagree. I have no desire to pursue this any further.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:25 PM   #28
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Of course I tried to "stop it". Which got me an even worse beating than the normal 3 or 4 I would get EVERY DAY. They said nothing to him. Maybe the next day they did. Fine. But why wouldn't they as it was happening if it was SO bad as you claim? What Butler did is nowhere near the level of the other actions you described. Most of which are also illegal, by the way.

Like I said. I will not change your mind. You will not change mine. We will agree to disagree. I have no desire to pursue this any further.
No prob. I'll finish though by noting you missed my point. Whether what you endured was abusive or not did not change just because you reported it, or silently endured it. Whether authorities knew of the abuse or ignored the abuse, it was still abuse. So whether the Wolves reacted or not does not quantify as abuse or not.

I also wasn't seeking to change your opinion. What I was attempting to do was show the reasons you gave for saying it wasn't abuse didn't measure up. I'm not going to try and convince anyone of anything when the sources given are unnamed. I also recognize mainstream media would not be able to quote word for word the worst of what was potentially said because it wouldn't make it past the censors. But if you want to say it wasn't abuse & say the reason why is because you just don't think so....God speed.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:31 PM   #29
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But if you want to say it wasn't abuse & say the reason why is because you just don't think so....God speed.
And you are honestly going to tell me what Butler said is just as bad as the examples you provided? Come on. The "MF'ers" is certainly debatable as abusive. But even if I say it is, it's a very low level of abuse. There are multiple levels of crimes. So OK. maybe it would be sixth degree abuse if it was a crime. Nowhere NEAR the level of sexual harassment or actual physical assault. Not even friggin' close. And "you effen need me"? Sorry. And if that was so bad, the GM most certainly would have said something immediately to the effect of "You are being way out of line" and would have put a stop to it then and there.

And I explained why I didn't think it's abusive. In no way, shape or form did I or do I "just don't think so."

Now I'm done. Just answered out of respect for your opinions and thoughts. No matter how misguided and wrong they are.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:07 PM   #30
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And you are honestly going to tell me what Butler said is just as bad as the examples you provided? Come on. The "MF'ers" is certainly debatable as abusive. But even if I say it is, it's a very low level of abuse. There are multiple levels of crimes. So OK. maybe it would be sixth degree abuse if it was a crime. Nowhere NEAR the level of sexual harassment or actual physical assault. Not even friggin' close. And "you effen need me"? Sorry. And if that was so bad, the GM most certainly would have said something immediately to the effect of "You are being way out of line" and would have put a stop to it then and there.

And I explained why I didn't think it's abusive. In no way, shape or form did I or do I "just don't think so."

Now I'm done. Just answered out of respect for your opinions and thoughts. No matter how misguided and wrong they are.
You wouldn't be the 1st to think I was misguided.......

One of the biggest errors people make in debates is concluding someone's comparison is the same as equalizing. People who do think that way either misunderstand what is said, or are making a cheap accusation when they see they aren't defending their position well. In no way, shape or form did I equate what Butler did to hazing, rape & schoolyard bullying. I would never attempt to rank any of those things on some kind of "heinous meter". I was very clear in why I brought up those other things: Just because something is considered common does not mean it isn't abuse.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:49 PM   #31
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I was making my NBA over/under bets and your teams was one of my best bets for a 'under'
Vegas has them at 31.5 wins and I think they have no incentive to compete this year.
I am not saying they will throw games, but I expect them to play their young guys a lot. Maybe run out Noah since they are paying him anyways.
Lots of Knox and Robinson and Ntilikina.

Your team will be pretty terrible and Porzingis is not expected back until Jan/Feb.
If your team is already 10 games out of the 8th seed by that point I would not be surprised if they simply shut him down for all the season and worked to build up that knee back to strength.

Just focus on next offseason and do what you can to free up cap space. Maybe frame Tim Hardaway Jr for a murder?
Produce documents showing Noah is a member of ISIS?

Whatever you can do to get off bad contracts and hope you land a good draft pick next June.
All true, unfortunately. Already, Knox is looking like Ntilikina did last year: Too young and inexperienced. Porzingis being out most of the year is devastating, of course.

The only bright note is that since you posted this, they did divest themselves of Noah, finally. The Knicks apparently freed up some cap room (and a roster spot), by spreading his final contract year over three years in exchange for being released.

Another rebuilding year, sigh. It's like waiting for one of the Egyptian pyramids to be built.
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:55 PM   #32
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All true, unfortunately. Already, Knox is looking like Ntilikina did last year: Too young and inexperienced. Porzingis being out most of the year is devastating, of course.

The only bright note is that since you posted this, they did divest themselves of Noah, finally. The Knicks apparently freed up some cap room (and a roster spot), by spreading his final contract year over three years in exchange for being released.

Another rebuilding year, sigh. It's like waiting for one of the Egyptian pyramids to be built.
They will get out of it. It will take time and abstaining from making bad choices like the Hardaway Jr contract but eventually they will make it back to the playoffs.
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:00 PM   #33
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Lonzo Ball's new kicks. I think they asked Ball which color he liked best & he answered "Yes".

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Old 10-17-2018, 05:03 PM   #34
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I have seen worse. Not often but I have seen worse.
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:09 PM   #35
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I have seen worse. Not often but I have seen worse.
In a bowling alley?
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:34 PM   #36
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In a bowling alley?





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Old 10-17-2018, 05:59 PM   #37
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1st are hideous. I don't mind the other 2.
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:49 PM   #38
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Boban is tall.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:29 PM   #39
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No one talking Lakers/Rockets melee? If I was basketball czar, Rondo would get 20, Ingram 10, Paul 3. I've got no time for spitting in someone's face. I have no idea what got into Ingram, but he needs a serious time out. I don't blame Paul one bit for how he reacted. Even if he had thrown the 1st punch. You don't spit on someone and not expect to get your butt whooped. The fact that he "held back" initially a modicum of restraint. And once you are hit, you are allowed to defend yourself. He gets suspended simply because the NBA can't appear to condone fighting under any circumstances.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:06 PM   #40
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Ingram - 4
Rondo - 3
Paul - 2
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