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OOTP 15 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2014 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

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Old 10-26-2014, 08:17 PM   #1
Honorable_Pawn
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My Vision of Future GM Page

I'm a little tired and have to work in the morning so I am not going to discuss in detail tonight. As more time comes available during the week I would like to discuss my ideas and answer your questions then.

I'll post preliminary screenshots tonight that will illustrate the fundamental idea. In my best LGO, "hopefully I'll have the user manuals and full business proposals completed shortly."

J/K LGO.

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Old 10-26-2014, 10:33 PM   #2
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The Fan Base

1. Die-Hard Fans
2. Bandwagon Fans
3. Casual Fans

There are three groups of fans that have varying ratios, needs, and expectations that depend upon the specific circumstances of your team. For instance, during a rebuild the percentage of your fan base that is Die-Hard will likely be the most prevalent group. Conversely, if you are making back-to-back championship runs then Bandwagon fans will most-likely have the highest ratio.

As the GM is it your responsibility to balance the needs and expectations of your fanbase. Sometimes the balance will be challenging and you will be faced with difficult choices. Do you jack up ticket prices during the playoffs in order to capitalize on the free-spending Bandwagon fan base so that you can pay off some of those arbitration contracts that are coming due? Or do you sacrifice the revenue so that you do not lose the respect and admiration of the Die-Hard fan base? The choice is yours.

Each type of fan has distinct needs and expectations. While winning generally keeps everyone happy slights such as raising prices during success will be remembered when your team comes back down to earth. Never fear, the fan base understands that you have to raise enough money to keep the team competitive and they are willing to forgive you the occasional transgression. But if you keep running your team like Mr. Monopoly things can turn ugly for you very quickly.

Die-hard Fan
The Die-hard fan is your core group of fans that drive season ticket sales. This is your AM Sports Talk radio-nut that only wants to talk local sports. The larger this group is the easier it will be for you to be successful. Although no group is more important than any other it is when times are difficult such as a rebuild or down-season that it may seem like this is the only group you can count on. The Die-hard fan base is very patient and is generally supportive. The attitude of this group is very consistent and only changes very slowly over time. Also, this group will grow methodically over time if they are not neglected and if you manage effectively. The Die-Hard fan base will often travel great distances to get to the stadium.

The Die-Hard fan purchases the highest percentage of concessions and team merchandise of any other group. They also purchase the most-consistent supply of season tickets. Most importantly, perhaps, they have the power to turn public opinion. If times are tough and you have been keen on paying attention to this group and treating them how they expect the community will rally behind you. Sometimes that’s all you need to get a couple of extra years to rebuild when the Owner calls you into his office (more on the Owner later).

One of the best ways to keep the Die-hard fan base satisfied is to provide them with your product at an inexpensive price. This group wants cheap tickets and free access to radio & television broadcasts. They want it free and they want lots of it. The longer the pre-game show the better they like you. The Die-hard fan base adores home-grown talent and hates to see them walk. They'll forgive you if you get some prospects in return. This group expects, nay, this group demands that you contribute to the community via charities & fund raisers. If you want to keep the Die-hard fan base happy you are going to have to spend the money.

The Die-hard fan base disapproves of players and coaches that cause trouble in the community or in the clubhouse. They expect you to take action when things go wrong. If a star player continuously gets into trouble and you do nothing they will tend to get irritable. This group also does not like when you raise your ticket prices during success. They hate when Bandwagon fans gobble up tickets that they can no longer afford. They also dislike when you sign a free agent that does not live up to expectations. If you neglect the community by squeezing the charitable contributions budget they will take notice. Naturally, the Die-hard fan base wants to see a winner on the field and winning cures a lot of ill-will. But keep in mind, they have very long memories. Once your team comes back down to earth and the Bandwagon fans jump ship the Die-Hard is all that you have left. Once this fan base turns against you it is very difficult to get them back. In fact, the Die-hard fan base is the only group whose attitude can turn “angry.” When times are tough they are your best ally or they are your worst enemy. If they stop buying tickets because of you…well, the Owner will not like that very much.

Bandwagon Fan
This group tends to listen to the FM dial and they love national news. Chances are they never heard of you (especially if you stink) so don’t think you are going to attract them on the AM dial. The Bandwagon fan base is likely to be your most lucrative group when you are successful. They have little concern for ticket price and will gobble up playoff tickets quickly even if you have recently raised prices. Bandwagon fans like winning streaks and will travel moderate distances during such events. Most importantly, Bandwagon fans like championships and will travel great distances, especially if you are making a back-to-back playoff run. Keep in mind that the Bandwagon fan also rivals the Die-hard fan in the percentage of merchandise and concessions purchased. As a GM you will realize very quickly that the Bandwagon fan is the fan that you make your profit on. This is the group that pays for that next superstar. When you have this fan in your corner everything is rosy.

The Bandwagon fan group, however, is a very fickle group that does not have patience for prospects and minor league development. They want you to sign big-name free-agents and they will get quickly interested if you go on a money-spending spree. Be careful, though, because if the team doesn’t come together right away they will quickly lose interest. The fastest way to lose this group is to trade a proven player for prospects. They won’t stand for it. They’re not going to get angry or anything like that. They’re just going to do something else with their money. You don’t want this group disinterested. The Owner doesn’t like that.

The Bandwagon fan is very forgiving of misbehaving players as long as the player performs well on the field. If you keep winning they love the whole team (even if they don’t know any of the players’ names). If you start to lose, just like that, they forget all about you.

The Bandwagon fan doesn’t care about charity or fund-raisers but you will need to market to them so that they know how you are doing. When you have a successful product you will need to reach out to them and advertise. If you wait for word of mouth to spread you will be missing out on the financial windfall of the “early-adopters.”

Casual Fan
The casual fan loves to go to the game on Fridays, and on the weekends. They will fill up the park if you are playing well. They don't tend to travel very far unless you are winning. Then they will travel a moderate distance. They tend to hear about your success before the Bandwagon fan and will fill up seats. Sounds great, right? Just remember that every seat that a Casual fan takes up is one less seat that a Bandwagon fan can occupy and one less seat that a Die-hard can occupy.

Like the Die-hard fan the Casual fan wants cheap tickets. Most importantly, they expect promotions and want lots of free stuff. The profit margins are much lower on this type of fan than any other. They purchase the least amount of merchandise and concessions and gobble up seats from the Die-Hards and they gobble up seats from the much-more lucrative Bandwagon fan. So why does the GM need this group?

Because this group drives TV ratings (more on TV contracts later). TV contracts can be very fruitful or they can be very costly. You will need to carefully balance the needs of this group of fans if you expect media revenue. Essentially, you will not be able to maintain a winning product without the income from a TV contract.

One of the most-important things to the casual fan is image. This group of fans will turn on you very quickly when there is unpunished player misconduct. They worry about what their children see. They expect that multi-million dollar athletes set an example for their children. They will hold you accountable if you take no action. You don't want this fan base turning off the televisions because you wouldn't suspend or trade away Mr. Superstar Scumbag. It is very important to not lose this group because this group drives TV ratings. This group likes free agents and home-grown talent on about an even basis. It’s important to keep up appearances with this group no matter how unprofitable they may appear.

Although this group will tend to be a thorn in your side they will very slowly over time convert to Die-Hard fans.

Last edited by Honorable_Pawn; 10-26-2014 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:15 PM   #3
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I love this idea
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:18 AM   #4
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I love this idea
Me two
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Old 10-27-2014, 06:49 AM   #5
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Best idea by one person on here in years.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:24 AM   #6
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This idea has a lot of thought behind it, and already has some real good understanding laid out.
I am really looking forward to seeing more of the over all idea, and the other management screens and what not

Normally I think most new suggestions are average ideas at best
This is one of those ideas that can actually take the game up a step in GM realism

well done
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:31 AM   #7
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Nice idea, but I think that's way too many options. I imagine most OOTP players are casual GMs and wouldn't be interested in so many options. I consider myself a hardcore GM and I have no interest in TV contracts and stuff. It looks good, but I think it's a bit too much.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:52 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mpejkrm View Post
Nice idea, but I think that's way too many options. I imagine most OOTP players are casual GMs and wouldn't be interested in so many options. I consider myself a hardcore GM and I have no interest in TV contracts and stuff. It looks good, but I think it's a bit too much.
I'm with you on this. I manage my rosters daily all the way from MLB to the DSL and VSL teams, but I have no interest in dealing with things like this. In real life, GMs do not have a hand in radio and TV contracts, so if this were to be included, I'd be among those who would hope it would be optional.

I do see why there would be interest in this, though. Lots of good thought went into this by the OP.
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:26 AM   #9
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Well thought out but ootp is not a marketing game. The GM has no role in marketing.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:32 PM   #10
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I'd be fine with it if it had an on/off switch, but very unlikely OOTP Dev. will listen.
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Old 10-27-2014, 09:42 PM   #11
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This looks like a great idea!
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Old 10-27-2014, 09:59 PM   #12
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Great idea love it but The Wolf will hate it and hate you
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:19 AM   #13
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It's "savvy".

Love the first screen, but I'm less supportive of the fan base division. I think the phenomena you're trying to define to a deep level can already be represented well via market size, fan loyalty (dieheard vs bandwagon is here), and fan interest (casual + bandwagon measured here), with some slight tweaks to how those are calculated.

I think I'd prefer the settings for TV and radio contracts to be more binary and less slidery, there are enough fine-tuned slider controls to deal with as it is. The mix of 0/1 options alone would provide significant depth, I think you're excessively micromanaging with more than that.

EDIT - I love the ratings graphs, though. Great idea!
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Old 10-28-2014, 04:22 PM   #14
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Let's not make comments like these, folks. They don't do anyone any good.

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Great idea love it but The Wolf will hate it and hate you
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Old 10-28-2014, 04:50 PM   #15
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Let's not make comments like these, folks. They don't do anyone any good.

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Sorry I hope you all know I said in jest. Not to be taken seriously. Just a joke. Sorry
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Old 10-28-2014, 05:49 PM   #16
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Sorry I hope you all know I said in jest. Not to be taken seriously. Just a joke. Sorry
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I understand the joke but it highlights a problem. I don't like this vision of the game and I would like to post on it but I didn't because I suspected my opinion would be viewed as an attack and that the thread could become messy and the pov would be missed. There are other threads that I have refrained from posting to as well as this and it has made me frustrated and irritable. Some other threads even have comments in the OP suggesting those who disagree should not post. I find that offensive (not this thread). The reflexive suggestion that I can just turn a feature off doesn't cut it IMO because programming and feature development time are finite and I have as much right to advocate against spending that time as those who are for it. If that means saying an idea is bad that should be ok.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how one can say they don't like or want the "Arcading" of OOTP without being told to just turn it off or being called an elitist. I want input into resources allocation just like everyone else and don't see why my only recourse is to turn off features I don't like. Maybe more features should have to be turned on not just off? Maybe we should get more baseball into the best baseball simulator out there.

See posts 16-18 in the link below as an example. Later on it was proposed that levels of detail be included as if that would help me with a feature I don't think is realistic or should be in the game at at all.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3713127

Flame away.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:51 PM   #17
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I'm all for more in depth game play but I'm not 100% on board with this.

I don't really get the local tv and radio stuff. Are you saying the local TV and radio station is team owned? If that's the case I get it somewhat more but if you're talking about the local Fox sports affiliate or NBC or what not some of the sliders don't make sense because the team wouldn't control some of those options. Not to mention teams either make their own stations or sell out to the highest bidder now. No sliders involved. Plus unless you are just challenging yourself why would you even play on any setting that doesn't give you the maximum amount of return.

The fan thing is more interesting but i'd be way more involved in setting up than it'd be worth. you'd be adding a ton of extra bits just to make it work. Also Casual fans tend to spend more when they do go to the ballpark because it's a once a year "mini vacation" type thing usually spent with family. Which means buying lots of souvenirs, food, programs, etc. In the course of a year that fan might not spend much but in terms of one game day that type of fan spends a LOT.
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:23 PM   #18
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Interesting, and well thought out, but not my cup of tea. I'm not interested in dealing with TV contracts, and I'm not interested in having the fan base portrayed in that much detail.

I play OOTP because I want to assemble a team, make trades, negotiate contracts, set my lineup, make substitutions, study statistics, etc. Those are the things I enjoy doing when I'm playing, and the things I think about when I'm not playing the game.
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Old 10-29-2014, 06:09 AM   #19
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I love the idea of immersing the gamer into the game to be more personally. Would love to see owner work a contract with me and much more. This idea would be a Grand Slam. Im sure that all the ideas we come up in this area would take a period of time to implement.
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Old 10-29-2014, 05:38 PM   #20
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Rich, I think you and everyone else around here who has opinions should be able to voice them without being worried that you're going to basically be shouted down later. I try to keep an eye on this forum and will do my best to ensure that everyone has a fair chance to speak.

If necessary, feel free to PM me and ask me to look at a particular thread if you feel that I need to intervene. That goes for everyone here. Thanks.
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