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Old 12-02-2009, 11:08 AM   #21
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Sunshine Stalwarts-Two Trial Horses

As I was researching the Floridian middleweights (circa, 1970s), I kept tripping over two guys, Fast Eddie Davis and Henry "Slick" Mitchell. They appeared so often, that I found them impossible to ignore, thus the ratings below.

It seems that if you were a middleweight either living or passing through Florida you just had to fight one, if not both, of these guys. Usually more than once!

Davis and Mitchell were the guys who typically showed up in the locker room on fight night. If someone didn't show, if the scheduled matches ended early, or if a young prospect needed an easy night, these were the boys you plugged in.

Marcel Clay, Milton Owens, Gene Wells, and Elsiha Obed feasted on these boys, as did many others. When there weren't any other opponents, Fast Eddie and Slick fought each other. They did this four times. Davis won two of their meetings, Mitchell prevailed in one, and they fought to a draw in a fourth encounter. I doubt that there was much public demand for this series!

I have absolutely no proof of this at all, but I like to imagine that Fast Eddie and Slick were pals, knocking down some beers after taking a beating in an improptu match against a more talented opponent. Licking their wounds and recounting there few ring triumphs in some cheap bar.

Mitchell was based in Brunswick, Georgia but fought almost all of his matches in Florida. Henry owned the ultimate glass jaw. He lost a total of forty-six fights out of seventy-three. Thirty-one of those were the result of knockouts or stoppages. And you didn't need much of a wallop to put Slick to sleep. Light-hitting Gene Wells did it twice!

Fast Eddie seems to have had a little more in terms of boxing skills, but not much more with a career record of 15-46-6. Unlike his buddy, Davis could take a punch and was only stopped fourteen times. And the quality of his opponents was a tad higher than the pugs Henry faced.

He gave a young Vinnie Curto a tough bout (at least according to The Ring) losing a split decision in a 1978 ten rounder. Fast Eddie also got into the ring with Carlos De Leon (twice) and Sugar Ray Seales. True he was stopped in these fights, but these guys at least had recognizable names among boxing fans in the 70s. You couldn't make that claims for the guys who beat up Mitchell.

A note about the attached ratings. For this thread, I like to go far beyond what's contained in BoxRec. Typically, I look for addtional sources on the Net and comb through old, musty copies of The Ring. Additionally, I want to include a picture of the fighter.

In preparing these ratings, I conducted a search far greater than what either fighter (or both combined!) was worth in the grand scheme of things. Needless to say, I found little more than scraps of information and not phots of either man. So these are truly very broad approximations of each fighter's abilities--or lack of same.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:40 PM   #22
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Don Mogard

A standard question in a boxing trivia quiz, "Who was the first fighter to go the distance with Rocky Marciano?" Thus, Don Mogard is another one of those guys who is famous for a fight he lost rather than a bout he won.

And his record (19-16-3) reveals that he only won half of his fights during a career as a heavyweight from 1947-1951. He was sort of a mediocre, non-factor in the division who typically fought preliminary matches against other mediocre non-factors of the era.

In addition to Marciano, he did lace up against Roland LaStarza, an aged Jack London, Don Cockell, and Carmine Vigo, all in losing efforts. As far as his victories, in his nineteen wins he didn't defeat anyone of great reputation or worth.

Still he was seen as a rugged, somewhat skilled boxer. He didn't have much of a punch. He kayoed three tomato cans and stopped two others. As demonstrated by his match with Marciano, he had a VERY strong chin and could take a pounding. He was never stopped, finishing all of his matches on his feet--win, lose, or draw.

Most of his matches were six or eight round affairs. Besides losing a one-sided unanimous decision to the Rock in 1949, the only other time he was scheduled for a ten rounder was earlier that year when he lost a another unanimous nod to Jo Weiden.

His back story is a little interesting, insofar as he was infected by a bit of wanderlust. Perhaps it was in his genes. Don's dad was a Norwegian who settled in Canada following World War One.

Prior to joining the Royal Canadian Air Force during World War Two, he worked as a lumber jack which might account for his ruggedness in the ring. At some point he fought as an amatuer and served as a physical fitness instructor during his service hitch.

After mustering out of the military, he was encouraged to give the pro fight game a whirl. Mogard's first three fights were in Canada, but by the end of 1947 he was fighting regularly in the New York metropolitan area, appearing on undercards in local venues like St. Nick's Arena, Broadway Arena, and Jamaica Arena in Queens.

He actually was part of the undercard at Yankee Stadium on the night that Joe Louis kayoed Jersey Joe Walcott in their 1948 championship match. Mogard scored a four round decision over James Patrick Connolly earlier in the evening.

After the loss to Marciano, he hooked up with Lee Savold and functioned as a sparring partner. Savold was scheduled to meet Bruce Woodcock for a match in the UK, and Mogard took the trip with Lee to help him prepare.

Don seems to have taken a liking to the British Isles and never returned to the U.S. during his boxing days. He matched up against the likes of London, Cockell, and Irishman Paddy Slavin before calling it a career in early 1951.

Mogard was a tough fighter to rate (at least for me!). I combed through old copies of The Ring, searched through the Net, and looked over a biography of Marciano. All of that and very little information gained. I was quite surprised that The Ring carried no account of his match with Marciano outside of a brief, one-sentence report that Marciano defeated him in a ten round match by UD.

Most likely, his total rating of a 4 is a bit generous. But to finish on your feet after ten rounds with Marciano as he was entering his prime has to earn you points. So I gave him strong ratings for endurance, chin/ko, ability to recover and absorb punishment but I scored him low in virtually all of the offensive categories. The little information that I found was somewhat conflicted concerning his style, thus I set him as "Either."

The picture below was posted previously by Rom.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:14 PM   #23
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Ernie Knox

Along with the ring fatalities of Benny Paret and Davey Moore, Ernie Knox's death as a result of his 1963 match with Wayne Bethea moved professional boxing deeper into the sport's dark period of the early 1960s. Boxing was virtually blacklisted with respect to television broadcasts, and there was serious talk about banning the sport outright.

The factors leading to Knox's death represent an ugly side of professional boxing and is thoroughly examined in a Sports Illustrated article that was recently posted in another thread by Jofre. Rather than recount the details of the article, I've reposted it below.

In working out a rating for Knox, I did something that might seem a bit unorthodox. Although BoxRec lists him as a light heavyweight, and he fought virtually all of his matches weighing in at under 180, of his twenty-two fights during his career (1957-1963), more than half of those were against fighters listed as heavyweights. Thus I've rated him as a heavyweight.

Ernie's overall record was 11-8-3, but against heavyweights, it was 4-6-3. In most of those matches, Knox was giving up fifteen pound or more to his opponents. This substantial weight differential serves as the primary basis of the rating.

From the point of style, I set him as a boxer; fighting a larger man would make him disinclined to be willing to mix it up. I also assigned a lower CF for fighting a slugger with this in mind. Only two of his opponents were ever counted out so I gave him a low HP. His endurance is a little on the low side, and I have both his aggresiveness and recovery are rather low.

Given the size disadvantage he faced, I assigned his conditioning as 4 which reflects weight problems. While this is generally reserved for fighters who have problems coming in at the weight limit,I felt it was applicable for Knox who's problems were weight-related in a different sense,

I'd suggest that if you are simming Knox against a fighter who's normal weight would be more than ten pounds greater than Ernie's that you set the conditioning to weight problems during the setup stage for a more realisitc result.

Here's the website for the article that Jofre posted.

When an unknown fighter named Knox died after a bout in - 10.28.63 - SI Vault
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:24 AM   #24
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Boxing coverage in SI. We don't see a lot of that anymore there days, do we?
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:32 PM   #25
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Boxing coverage in SI. We don't see a lot of that anymore there days, do we?
You could look at it from the bright side. Better no coverage than an article about such a terrible event!

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Old 12-05-2009, 04:10 PM   #26
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Laverne Roach

Another tragic ring death that once more shows boxing's ugly side. A young, handsome ex-marine, Roach was a talented prospect who like far too many lost his life as a result of inadequate medical screening, poor officiating, and greedy handlers.

Leaving the service at the end of World War Two, Roach, a Texan, relocated to New York City where he captured the city's Golden Gloves welterweight crown in 1945.

Shortly thereafter, Laverne turned pro and earned The Ring's 1947 "Rookie of the Year" award as a middleweight. Possessing considerable ring skills and a world of potential, the February 1948 issue of The Ring assessed Roach in the following manner.

"Roach has patterned his style pretty much after...Gene Tunney. There is nothing fancy or flashy in Laverne's modus operandi, but the youngster is cool, knows how to box, and wastes few punches."

Coming into 1948, Roach had an impressive record of 22-1 with his only loss the result six round decision with tough Artie Towne in Laverne's sixth fight as a pro. His record included wins over name fighters like Herbie Kronowitz and Billy Arnold.

Roach opened 1948 with a unanimous win over Tony Janiro in January and a month later stopped Al Thornton in seven. Sadly, set off events that would lead to Roach's downfall and ultimately cost him his life.

His handlers, blinded by greed, pushed for a match against world-class European star Marcel Cerdan, who later that year would take the word middleweight crown from Tony Zale.

Laverne was only a few months past his twenty-third birthday, and despite all of his potential, he had no business in the ring against Cerdan at this point in his career.

In a gross mismatch, Cerdan decked Roach three times in the second round. At that point the contest should have been halted. In a rare off-night, referee Art Donovan let the massacre continue until round eight after Roach was floored four more times.

Reporting on the match in its May 1948 issue The Ring noted, "It was a probale mismatch that shouldn't have been made." Taking Roach's handlers to task, Jersey Jones, who wrote the piece, concluded, that "...they just about wrecked a fine young prospect."

Jones was totally on the mark in his assessment. Roach went on to lose on points to Charlie Zivic and then dropped a unanimous ten rounder to the unheralded Johnny Hansbury. Laverne hung up his boxing gloves at the end of 1948 and sold insurance for a living.

Sadly, he was persuaded to make a comeback in 1950, and his matches were fast-tracked with him fighting four bouts in less than two months.

On his twenty-fifth birthday, Laverne met tough Georgie Small at New York's St. Nicholas Arena on February 22, 1950. The website below details the contest. Roach was kayoed in the tenth and died the following day from a sub-dural brain hemmorage.

Boxing: Damaged Goods

As the above article indicates, Laverne entered the Small fight as "damaged goods", no doubt suffering permanent brain injury from his match with Cerdan two years earlier.

Boxing history records this sordid affair as just another "accidental death" in the ring. But given the failure to do prefight medical screening, the incompetent performance of Arthur Donovan, and the greed-driven handlers who managed Roach, words like "man slaughter" or even "murder" might be more accurate.

On a rather morbid note, Laverne's last match hold the dubious distinction of being the first televised "boxing fatality."

Following his death, his widow established a scholarship award in Laverne's name at his alma mater, Plainview High School in Texas.

A few words about the attached rating. I had searched the forum and saw references to an exisiting rating for Roach but couldn't find it in the default pool or in FighterList.

The rating reflect's Laverne's abilities prior to the Cerdan match. I'm considering matching him against Laszlo Papp in my Lost Years sim. If I do, I'll most likely adjust his career to "post-prime" and set his conditioning to 11 ("Physical and Mental Problems"). Then again, I might just fight him in his prime as if these terrible events had never taken place.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:07 AM   #27
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Lamont Lovelady

A name befitting an adult film star! Lovelady, along with Clint Jackson, was a product of Alvino Pena's famous storefront youth boxing program in Davenport, Iowa. He compiled an impressive record as an amatuer, ultimately winning the 1972 National Golden Gloves crown in the 156 lb. weight class.

Turning pro at the end of 1972, Lamont put together a 5-0 record in his first year of competition. His handlers were guilty of a bit of a stretch matching him against ring warhorse Ron Wilson of Canada in 1974. Wilson was a light heavy who had eighty-eight pro fights at the time and proved to be just too skilled and too big for Lovelady. Lamont was stopped in the seventh round of their scheduled ten rounder.

From there, Lovelady's career hit the skids. He lost his next four bouts. Two of his losses came at the hands of Melvin Douglas, who picked up a national Golden Gloves title in 1970. He then dropped a ten round affair to 1968 Olympic gold medalist Johnny Baldwin. Lovelady went on to face Marvin Hagler in September 1975 and was stopped in seven after taking a rather severe beating.

After the loss to Hagler, Lamont appears to have called it a day. He returned to the ring, however, nearly three years latter, pulling off three wins including a seventh round kayo if Leo Saenz. From that point on, he seemed to slow down a bit with only four bouts in nearly two years. His performance was not very impressive with a record of 1-3.

At thirty years old, Lovelady left boxing again after dropping a decision to former Olympian Fulgencio Obelmejias of Venezuela. But once more, he climbed back into the ring after an eighteen month layoff and was knocked out in eight by Dwight Davison in November 1981. Six months later he lost a ten rounder on points to Bernard Mays and quit for good.

Doing the research on Lovelady, I had one question concerning his career progression. Why would you start setting up ten round fights for a guy who had less than a year's pro experience and only four fights under his belt.

Granted, Lamont was twenty-four when he turned pro, but he really hit the ground running. While I'm not suggesting that Lovelady was ever top tier material, he did have some talent winning a National Golden Gloves title. I can only conclude that this was just one more case of a fighter not reaching his full potential as the result of poor managerial decisions. Something tells me he had more going for him than his 9-10 career record would indicate.
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:31 AM   #28
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...Unlike his buddy, Davis could take a punch and was only stopped fourteen times...
Kind of a depressing sentence...he was only stopped fourteen times...
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:40 AM   #29
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Kind of a depressing sentence...he was only stopped fourteen times...
Thanks for stopping by! I really missed your sardonic wit from the sidelines and along with the facility for lifting my comments out of context.
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:29 PM   #30
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Haven't been around as much lately, but I always enjoy seeing what you're up to. I have access to a full text database of the New York Times, so I can ferret out some bits of information on obscure boxers who fought around New York. Can't help much with these Floridians, though.

And on the subject of Don Mogard above...I may be confusing him with somebody else, but I am pretty sure it was Mogard about whom we had an interesting thread quite a while ago. Somebody argued that his manager had made a mistake matching him with LaStarza, that he could have been built up a little higher feeding on tomato cans before he came back to earth.

I suggested that perhaps Mogard had already gone as far as he could, and that getting him on the undercard of a big fight (a lightweight world title fight at Yankee Stadium) might have been cashing in at the right moment for a relatively good payday. I really don't have much idea whether I was right or not -- for one thing I don't actually know how big a payday a six-round undercard fight in those circumstances would have been -- but I was just trying to play devil's advocate in an interesting discussion.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:21 PM   #31
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Haven't been around as much lately, but I always enjoy seeing what you're up to. I have access to a full text database of the New York Times, so I can ferret out some bits of information on obscure boxers who fought around New York. Can't help much with these Floridians, though.

And on the subject of Don Mogard above...I may be confusing him with somebody else, but I am pretty sure it was Mogard about whom we had an interesting thread quite a while ago. Somebody argued that his manager had made a mistake matching him with LaStarza, that he could have been built up a little higher feeding on tomato cans before he came back to earth.

I suggested that perhaps Mogard had already gone as far as he could, and that getting him on the undercard of a big fight (a lightweight world title fight at Yankee Stadium) might have been cashing in at the right moment for a relatively good payday. I really don't have much idea whether I was right or not -- for one thing I don't actually know how big a payday a six-round undercard fight in those circumstances would have been -- but I was just trying to play devil's advocate in an interesting discussion.
You remind me of my ex-wife---you just love to get under my skin!
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:15 AM   #32
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Tony "Kid" Longoria

This young, mid-60s heavyweight has an interesting back story. Born Ismael Longoria in 1948, he was a Mexican-American kid from San Antonio who started boxing at age twelve and by the time he was seventeen, he was undefeated in the amateurs winning his city's Golden Gloves heavyweight title.

He attracted the attention of former boxer Pat O'Grady who turned him pro in 1966. Longoria spent his first two years fighting in Las Vegas and the Los Angeles area where he soon became a local fan favorite for his "you-or-me" style which saw him tear out of his corner at the opening bell looking to take out his opponent in the opening heat.

Similar to guys like LaMar Clark and Bowie Adams before him, the "Kid" ran up a string of early knockouts over a bunch of stiffs. Nevertheless, there was no doubt that he could punch, and a number of boxing experts started talking about him as a hot prospect.

His greatest win was a first round kayo over Peru's tough Roberto Davila in the first round in just his seventh fight as a pro. No doubt he caught Davila cold with his "all-or-nothing-at-all" attack, but Roberto could take a punch. He was the first person to take George Foreman the distance and went the full twenty rounds in two bouts with an aging Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams.

Longoria continued to plant stiffs for the next two years putting together a record of 20 (KO 18)-0, but then it happened. Nineteen year old Mr. Longoria fell in love and took a bride. Distraction set in and apparent demands were made. Tony met the human punching bag known as Memphis Al "Preacher" Jones (this is the very bad one not to be confused with the journeyman from Florida) in March 1969 for what was to be another knockout win.

It seems that Mrs. Longoria' demands ranked ahead of the need to train for the Jones match. The "Kid" came in ten pounds heavier than his last fight, and there are reports that his mind was elsewhere....hmmm. Memphis Al dumped Longoria on the mat in round two where he was counted out at the 0:54 mark.

I've read that O'Grady, who really believed that Longoroia had what it took to be a world champ, thought that the "Kid" sort of went into the tank against Jones. Not because of any type of fix but rather to find an easy exit from boxing to placate his wife who wanted him to pursue a more regular, normalized occupation.

Longoria, six months from turniing twenty, promptly retired after the Jones loss and is said to have become a plumber (now that's a regular, normalized occupation fit for a married man). Let's hope that he and the little lady lived happily ever after.

Besides spousal pressures on the home front, the loss to Jones had to have a severe emotional impact upon Longoria. He had previously been undefeated--both as an amateur and a pro. Getting kayoed by the likes of someone like Memphis Al is certainly cause for revisiting career options.

A little information about the rating posted below. Somewhere along the way, I had added a rating for the "Kid". I only realized this when I was entering my own rating. There was no source for this rating (it does look like something Rocco would have provided), and I suspect that I took it off Cornerwork (now defunct?) several years ago.

Nothing wrong with that rating, but I wanted to do a different take on Longoria. My goal was to project him beyond that last fight with Memphis Al. In doing so, I juiced up a couple of things and generally tried to be creative. Some of the ratings will no doubt raise many eyebrows, but I wanted to capture the "Kid"'s exciting style.

A few specifics concerning the justification for the intellect and conditioning ratings. I gave him a 10 for intellect. Those who wish to employ strategy can have Longoria go right out of the shute for an early knockout, which was his style.

For conditioning, I gave him an 11---physical and mental problems. Personally, I feel this would accurately cover the demands that a young bride could place upon a boxer, or on any man for that matter.

Finally, I was a little unorthodox with his chin ratings. For knockdowns, I gave him a 2 but set him at 4 for the kayo. This is another attempt to factor Longoria's personality into the mix. Knocking out a string of stiffs can make a guy feel like Superman, but when you kiss the canvas, it's like somebody just dropped a ton of Kryptonite on your front lawn.

I've play tested him against many of the mid-to late 60s heavyweights (Alongi, Quarry, Lovell, Kirkman, etc.), and I'm pretty pleased with the results. I can't say that this is an accurate rating, but I do feel that it's a probable assessment.

One thing that I've fooled around with was setting the conditioning for each match. If I were to do a career sim (don't count on it--I've got two going already plus this thread!), I'd have him fighting in top condition until his first defeat. Thereafter, I'd factor in the emotional elements for his subsequent fights.

All that said, I'm sort of having fun with simming Longoria. Regardless of his opponent, you're never quite sure how the match will turn out in the end.
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Last edited by professordp; 12-09-2009 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:25 PM   #33
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Tommy Fix

Certainly not a good surname for a boxer! You could just imagine the comments from ringsiders who watched Tommy lose twenty-seven of his thirty-four pro bouts during a career that spanned from 1961 to 1970 (tack on an unsuccessful one fight "comeback" in 1977).

I came across Fix in the July 1967 issue of Boxing Illustrated which gave him a few paragraphs in its "Local Favorites" section (it must have been a lean month for the BI staff).

BI reported that Tommy was a "classy little bantamweight." They weren't too clear about what they meant by "classy". Nearly an entire paragraph of the three that were devoted to Fix reported on his domestic life (married with four kids). When they start writing about a boxer's family, it's often a tip off that the guy doesn't have much going for him in the ring!

A native of Shelby, Ohio, Tommy started boxing while in the service and had a certain amount of success in the amateur ranks before turning pro in 1961. It was somewhat an inglorious start insofar as Tommy lost his first four pro bouts.

Shortly after the BI profile was published, Fix went off on a three year "dry spell" in which he lost thirteen straight fights. At the conclusion of his losing streak, he wisely retired. But with four kids, there's always braces, school costs, doctors, etc. So Tommy returned to the ring one more time after a nearly seven year hiatus, and at the age of thirty-eight, lost an eight round decision to Johnny Alexander in 1977.

Fix then hung up the mitts for good. We can only hope that he subsequently went into something related to the repair business where his surname would have a more positive connotation.

One of Tommy's problems (according to BI) was that he often had to "fight up" a division or two. BoxRec lists him as a featherweight, but it would seem that his natural weight was several pounds below the 120 mark. Thus he was often facing bigger, stronger fighters. This would account, in part, for his twelve stoppages. Most of them took place by the sixth round.

Actually, if Fix made it to round seven, he was okay. That didn't mean he would win. He only did that trick seven times in thirty-four fights! But rather, he'd finish the fight. He lasted a full ten five times and went twelve rounds once. Of course of those six fights, he lost four.

So to sum it up, Tommy was a slow starter. If he got tagged early and went down, he generally remained on the canvas. Sluggers found him fun to feed on. Fix didn't have much of a punch so he couldn't keep his usually larger, stronger opponents at a safe distance.

A point of interest. Nine of his twenty-seven losses came at the hands of just three fighters (Ray Jutras, Chuck Spencer, and Billy "Cowboy" Smith).
Smith, a fellow Buckeye, faced Fix four times and won all of the contests.
So to a certain degree, poor Tommy was "red meat" for some fighters.

As far as it goes, the only "name" guys he fought were Kenny Weldon and Frankie Crawford. Crawford, who had a couple of cracks at the world feather crown, put Fix away in one round. It took Weldon, who participated in the 1977 U.S. Championship tourney, a little longer. He planted Fix in the third.

So if you need a tomato can for your bantam/feather sims, I've given you the perfect "Fix"!
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Last edited by professordp; 12-10-2009 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:35 AM   #34
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Old Sonny Liston

Following the 1965 Lewiston, Maine debacle with Ali, Liston became a pariah in the boxing world and spent the final five years of his career on the outside looking in. Promotors shunned him, ranked heavyweights avoided him, and many jurisdictions refused to grant him a boxing license.

After the second Ali match, Liston fought sixteen more times until his death in 1970, compiling a record of 15-1. Fourteen of those wins were the product of knockouts and TKOs. On paper, an impressive performance.

Yet the quality of Sonny's opponents as well as his boxing skills markedly declined during this final period of his career. Commenting on Liston's match with Elmer Rush in 1967, Angelo Dundee observed that the Bear was no longer the finisher he once was during the late 50s and early 60s.

I worked off of Dean's prime Liston rating which was posted last year in the Day Council thread and adjusted it according to Sonny's performance in his final years. I generally subscribe to Dean's use of "southpaw" for fighters that have some element of intimidation in the ring regardless of their stance. I purposely converted Liston to "orthodox" in this rating insofar as I felt that the intimidation factor was no longer at play at this stage of his career as it was during his "pre-Ali" days.

A quick note about the ratings I've posted in this thread. Unless noted, the ratings are my assessment of a fighter's prime years rather than a cumulative evaluation of an entire career. That's why some of what I've posted appears to be at considerable odds with ratings that have been compiled by other forum members. When I sim, I always adjusting for career stage, either manually or automatically during the match setup stage.

I don't have an exact standard to determine a boxer's "prime", but on a case by case basis I consider the following. Age (between 25-30), when (and if) they start fighting ten rounders, opponent quality, and at what point they appear to start "underperforming" against lesser opposition.

I've tested the Old Sonny rating against his actual opponents of this last stage of his career as well as top heavyweights of the second half of the 1960s (Frazier, Terrell, Ellis, Quarry, etc.) and feel that it plays well.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:11 PM   #35
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California Dreamers-Bill McMurray and Elmer Rush

The Golden State was fairly fertile in producing heavyweight prospects during the 1960s. Here are two guys who never really made the grade. Both of these guys had been rated previously, and I found them in Cornerworks (R.I.P.???) in one of Rocco's packages.

I had a different take on both fighters, and cooked up the ratings below. After play testing both, I found them to be accurate assessments of each man.

Bill McMurray: Started his career way back in 1959 and ended it twelve years laters after being taken out by Earnie Shavers in one round. A boxer with not much of a punch, he fought (and lost) to most of the major fighters of his era (Liston, Patteson, Alongi, Norton, and Boone Kirkman).

With a career record of 25-24-3, there were few real bright spots. One was TKO upset of highly-regarded Thad Spencer to win the California State Heavyweight title in 1966. It should be noted that Spencer was somewhat prone to cuts and that's how Bill won the match. In his next match he held Tony Alongi to a draw. It was pretty much all downhill after that.

Elmer Rush: A slugger who was a bit more of a force than was McMurray, Elmer put together a record of 16-6-2 with ten kayos. He was at best, a second tier heavyweight, who could never really crack the division's top twenty. Looking back on his career, holding an aged Eddie Machen to a draw in 1965 might have been Elmer's highpoint.

Both men were wiped out by an old Sonny Liston in the late 60s. McMurray and Rush met three times in their professional careers and broke even. Their first fight ended in a draw. Elmer squeezed out a split decision in their second meeting. In a rare display of power, McMurray kayoed Elmer in their final contest.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:13 PM   #36
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Elmer Rush
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:18 PM   #37
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Bill McMurray
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:37 PM   #38
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Old Folks-Zora Folley, Floyd Patterson, Cleveland Williams

I recently created a little heavyweight uni for the "Ali in Exile" (1967-1970) era, which I've always found interesting. By the mid-1960s the division was a "young man's" game with the emergence of Joe Frazier, Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis. There were also a number of young prospects as well--Tony Alongi, Thad Spencer, and Buster Mathis to name a few.

Nevertheless, oldtimers like Patterson, Folley, Liston, and "Big Cat" were still active. Although their skills were diminished by age, they still could be formidable opponents for the new generation of heavyweights.

For my uni, I've done age revisions that covers the "past-prime" performance for these guys. I thought I'd share them if anyone else has a similar interest in the heavyweight division during the second half of the 1960s.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:38 PM   #39
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Old Zora Folley
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:40 PM   #40
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Old Floyd Patterson
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