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OOTP 18 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 07-30-2017, 07:50 PM   #41
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On a related note, Spritze, how is that "all players" (MLB, MiLB, NeL) master database coming?
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:35 PM   #42
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Found a problem with using automatic expansion.
It seems the correct expansion teams and rookies will import but the game will also fold all teams and imports the teams that didn't fold in real life with the rookies for that year.
For example the 1872 Red Stockings have 1 rookie and AL Spalding is not on the team and not a free agent because he is still on the 1871 Red Stockings team that is inactive
Why the hell should that even be happening?
I can understand teams not having enough players if transactions are adjusted but teams just going inactive.
Im about fed up with 18 and might go back to 17 where it worked.
Starting to really hate whatever they changed in the database from 17 to 18.
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:35 AM   #43
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I am unaware of any changes to the database between 17 and 18 for 19th century play. Since I would have been the one to make them I'd probably know.

I will test your scenario with the proposed updated teams.csv today. It may cure many ills.
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:42 AM   #44
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There is no expansion in the default database between 1971 and 1872
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:59 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
There is no expansion in the default database between 1971 and 1872
True if we go by ootp's fictional expansion. But in the real thing there was expansion as Middletown Mansfield and 2 teams from Brooklyn wefe new in 1872. Now i did edit the teams csv file to get the correct historical teams to import. But its just strange that the rookies import ok but the game turns the teams that didn't fold into inactivated teams.
Not sure why it's happening but it worked correctly in 17. Only difference is maybe it wasn't the database obd file but the layman one in which I had edited the league abbreviations in the teams, batting, pitching and fielding can.
I'll see if I can repeat how I did it with 17.
Sorry just a little frustrated.
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Old 07-31-2017, 05:14 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMc View Post
On a related note, Spritze, how is that "all players" (MLB, MiLB, NeL) master database coming?
What I am doing here is the first 30 years of that and will include 19th century minor leaguers, negro and latin players and anyone else I can find. Then I'll add 1901-1930, 1931-1960 etc.
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Old 07-31-2017, 05:29 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
True if we go by ootp's fictional expansion. But in the real thing there was expansion as Middletown Mansfield and 2 teams from Brooklyn wefe new in 1872. Now i did edit the teams csv file to get the correct historical teams to import. But its just strange that the rookies import ok but the game turns the teams that didn't fold into inactivated teams.
Not sure why it's happening but it worked correctly in 17. Only difference is maybe it wasn't the database obd file but the layman one in which I had edited the league abbreviations in the teams, batting, pitching and fielding can.
I'll see if I can repeat how I did it with 17.
Sorry just a little frustrated.
Lahman files are no longer ootp compatible. Using them can blow you up in all sorts of interesting ways. Plus there are a number of files that interconnect that would all need to change. 11 of them as I disremember. Then those would need to become part of the larger ODB file or the game will not fully load and even more interesting things happen if it does not.

That is why I am working on creating a Spritze database for you guys. It won't be perfectly historical (yet) nor editable (because it can't be anymore) but it will be closer to history than what is in place now.
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:20 PM   #48
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Well that seems a bit of a bummer. I'm not sure we got to the point you made at the very beginning as to how we can make 19th century easier. Or at least we can't use previous versions as a guide.
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Old 08-01-2017, 01:31 AM   #49
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Well that seems a bit of a bummer. I'm not sure we got to the point you made at the very beginning as to how we can make 19th century easier. Or at least we can't use previous versions as a guide.
The idea is to do what we can independent of OOTP to make things better and hopefully get more users so we can ask for a few changes in 19 or 20. Baby steps.
Things we can do ourselves seem to be
1) As played Schedules - These existed as a mod before OOTP changed to the XML schedule format. If they don't exist in the new format perhaps they can be updated?
2) Real transactions seem to exist but they may need to be put in the OOTP format and then sent to the transaction guru (M'sRule) for inclusion. Currently OOTP blocks transaction data pre-1901 so we would need the development teams help to make this functional.
3) Convert to the real number of teams in a year and real team names which are two things I can do.
4) Change the Franchise ID's to be consistent would be another that would just be to help new users as the blinking off and on of franchises seems to be a big turnoff. This is another thing I could do.

Unless I am missing something the rest of the items noted in this post would require actions by the OOTP development team. The only one I am confident they will take action on is the 1901 AL league history bug.
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Last edited by Spritze; 08-01-2017 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 08-01-2017, 08:41 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
The idea is to do what we can independent of OOTP to make things better and hopefully get more users so we can ask for a few changes in 19 or 20. Baby steps.
Things we can do ourselves seem to be
1) As played Schedules - These existed as a mod before OOTP changed to the XML schedule format. If they don't exist in the new format perhaps they can be updated?
2) Real transactions seem to exist but they may need to be put in the OOTP format and then sent to the transaction guru (M'sRule) for inclusion. Currently OOTP blocks transaction data pre-1901 so we would need the development teams help to make this functional.
3) Convert to the real number of teams in a year and real team names which are two things I can do.
4) Change the Franchise ID's to be consistent would be another that would just be to help new users as the blinking off and on of franchises seems to be a big turnoff. This is another thing I could do.

Unless I am missing something the rest of the items noted in this post would require actions by the OOTP development team. The only one I am confident they will take action on is the 1901 AL league history bug.
The as-played schedules are still there, but they don't work because the historical league structure is different from the structure provided in default OOTP. You gave me an idea when you said that the as-played schedules use the team names rather than numbers. What if you just change the heading on the schedule and try to fool the game into accepting it?
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:52 AM   #51
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Team names are for minor league players not schedules.

There is no team numbering system built in the databases so it may be random or might be fixed but assigned by the OOTP program. I don't know which.

Since in some years we are forced to split leagues into 2 pieces perhaps a full inter-league schedule would stitch them back together.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:01 PM   #52
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What might work is if we can get the actual teams to show up with the correct rookies and the extra players put in a free agent pool. That way we can either use the extra players or delete them. But then theres the next year so maybe an option to use the extra players?
The main thing is getting the correct teams and players. From there a transaction file can be worked on to get automatic transactions.
Anyway from my 1871 thread i know it is possible.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:18 PM   #53
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Quote:
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What might work is if we can get the actual teams to show up with the correct rookies and the extra players put in a free agent pool. That way we can either use the extra players or delete them. But then theres the next year so maybe an option to use the extra players?
The main thing is getting the correct teams and players. From there a transaction file can be worked on to get automatic transactions.
Anyway from my 1871 thread i know it is possible.
We are stuck with the Inaugural Draft (for now) but after that, in my tests rookies seem to show up on the correct teams as long as the draft is off. I also tested contracted teams and found their players need to be released to free agency by hand but this is easy to do do by going to the team player list and mass releasing them to free agency.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:32 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
We are stuck with the Inaugural Draft (for now) but after that, in my tests rookies seem to show up on the correct teams as long as the draft is off. I also tested contracted teams and found their players need to be released to free agency by hand but this is easy to do do by going to the team player list and mass releasing them to free agency.
Inaugural Draft isn't a problem as you can just sign the players or create a quick start league. As far as releasing free agents i just went by the list i made. I just made it simple sign or release action. I think it would be best to release players fist.

This is how i did it.
Jack McDonald 5/8/1872 Release BR2 NA
Seem Studley 5/9/1872 Release WS4 NA
Jack McDonald 5/17/1872 Free Agent Signing BR1 NA
Jack McDonald 5/19/1872 Release BR1 NA
Jack McDonald 5/19/1872 Free Agent Signing BR2 NA
John Kenney 5/21/1872 Release BR2 NA
David Lenz 5/22/1872 Release BR1 NA

One thing to watch out for is the computer making roster changes as soon soon as you sim a day in the off season. I think i set the league to not allow ai roster changes but it still happened. That's why i ended up using human managers but still letting the computer pick lineups, pitching staff and active roster moves. But not transactions and the other settings.
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Old 08-01-2017, 06:47 PM   #55
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Inaugural draft removal is some OOTP would have to do. New minor leagues don't use one so the code already exists.

Releasing players from contracted teams also happens automagically in the minor leagues so that code exists as well.

Roster changes are intrinsic to how the game plays. To remove them the transaction file is used.
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Old 08-01-2017, 10:19 PM   #56
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Yeah,
#1 has to be the correct teams and rookies loading in automatic expansion. That makes it seem more post 1900 for newbies.
#2 Schedules can be modified
#3 Transactions can be arbitrary in-season, but need to start somewhere.

BaseballMan - that was a great example of Jack McDonald, Dave Orr does the same thing in 1883 switching NY teams and switching back.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:40 AM   #57
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Yeah,
#1 has to be the correct teams and rookies loading in automatic expansion. That makes it seem more post 1900 for newbies.
#2 Schedules can be modified
#3 Transactions can be arbitrary in-season, but need to start somewhere.

BaseballMan - that was a great example of Jack McDonald, Dave Orr does the same thing in 1883 switching NY teams and switching back.
Yeah players were switching teams all the time. Owners owned more than 1 team. Thats why i tried to keep transaction simple for now.
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Old 08-05-2017, 12:39 AM   #58
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I'll be posting a completed 19th century Spritze update on DropBox tomorrow afternoon. I'll post the link here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ly4pnazjc...abase.zip?dl=0

Includes real team names, franchises that add continuity, batting, pitching and fielding records that match real teams and the fake leagues we are forced to use.

I will start adding minor league and non-traveling team players on Sunday.

Schedules will need to be created or converted as necessary.

Hopefully some of you will be willing to test this file. It worked 1871-1900 once in a row.
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Last edited by Spritze; 08-05-2017 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 08-05-2017, 04:13 PM   #59
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Thanks for all your hard work

So it isn't a big risk to bet we will finally have real 19th century baseball in OOTP 19 next year?

BTW Spritze do you know why the Federal League start in 1915 in OOTP 18 and not 1914 like it did in real life?

Hope that maybe we will get the minor leagues added for all the missing seasons (1877-1914) next year...

The real schedules are all available for 1871 to 1900 for the National Association, National League, American Association, Union Association and the Player League somewhere here somewhere in the mod area since I got them years ago...

Last edited by AESP_pres; 08-05-2017 at 04:20 PM. Reason: Added schedule details
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Old 08-05-2017, 05:14 PM   #60
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First off, thank you Spritze!

OK, just to confirm- we still need to contract/delete teams ourselves?

I did a couple of tests. I started in 1892 with automatic expansion off. All is fine from 1892 to 1899- in '92 all teams have correct
rosters and all rookies import to correct teams every season.

When I get to 1899 offseason- if I have auto expansion off- nothing changes- you go to 1900 and we need to manually get rid of Louisville, Washington etc.

If I have auto expansion on at anytime, be it 1893, 94 etc. the teams that didn't exist such as Boston Americans, Philadelphia Athletics etc, pop up during the offseason.
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