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Old 05-27-2014, 12:13 AM   #41
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Old 05-27-2014, 12:40 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by baseballonly View Post
btw, MLB Pro's constitution is also a copy of the PEBA mostly.

Also Stevens, I'm just wondering how long you have been in your two other leagues.
I would like to just clarify that we asked for and were granted permission to use PEBA's constitution as a framework to build around.
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Old 05-27-2014, 12:41 AM   #43
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stevens84,


You realize you F-ed up a beautiful league that was created by men who love baseball. You ruined a perfectly good LRS, where Gms were so tight that we were like brothers to one another. How can we ever recruit from these forums with the hopes of not finding another POS like you. You tainted a Pool full of talented Gms who are looking for a great leagues to play in. But how can anyone come here looking for a GM now? I feel that you should be perma banned from these forums. You are a child that needs to grow up and if you are this kinda person here, I do not ever care to see the kinda person you are in real life. I hope anyone who has you in a league removes you as you do not deserve OOTP at all.
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:10 AM   #44
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I think that's where we are at. In PEBA, we just can no longer recruit from these forums. Sad, but true. I just can't trust the applications I receive, and have to spend weeks trying to vet applicants to make sure they are not one of his aliases. It's not worth all the additional time and work.
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Old 05-27-2014, 03:13 AM   #45
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As an OOTP online league guy (GM In 5, including AFBL where this guy is a GM), and commish of a very small but personally recruited, league I do find this somewhat frustrating, but unfortunately also very believable that someone could be such a tool.

What this person has not realised is that in doing this, he has broken the trust of not just those in the leagues he 'defrauded' but also damaged the trust that all online league GMs have in their fellow GMs, especially those in the leagues he is currently/was formally part of.

It'll be a long hard road back for this guy to earn that trust again (and he won't be able to with some people which is definitely fair), but, and don't shoot me for saying this, he does need to be given the opportunity to start to earn that trust again However he needs to be willing to be fully transparent in his dealings, and buddy, creating new forum aliases and being a commish is NOT the way to go about it.

Start at the bottom and try to earn some stripes, your previous actions have really damaged things for some people obviously, time to sit up and really think about what you're going to do in the future to try and repair some of this damage.
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Old 05-27-2014, 06:27 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezone13 View Post
As an OOTP online league guy (GM In 5, including AFBL where this guy is a GM), and commish of a very small but personally recruited, league I do find this somewhat frustrating, but unfortunately also very believable that someone could be such a tool.

What this person has not realised is that in doing this, he has broken the trust of not just those in the leagues he 'defrauded' but also damaged the trust that all online league GMs have in their fellow GMs, especially those in the leagues he is currently/was formally part of.

It'll be a long hard road back for this guy to earn that trust again (and he won't be able to with some people which is definitely fair), but, and don't shoot me for saying this, he does need to be given the opportunity to start to earn that trust again However he needs to be willing to be fully transparent in his dealings, and buddy, creating new forum aliases and being a commish is NOT the way to go about it.

Start at the bottom and try to earn some stripes, your previous actions have really damaged things for some people obviously, time to sit up and really think about what you're going to do in the future to try and repair some of this damage.
Well, I had to at least try it first. But I get exactly what you're saying, I'm gonna be using "captaincoop17" from now on and see where that takes me.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:00 AM   #47
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The first step is certainly to strip away all your fake IDs.

The PEBA, with its collection of knowledgeable and creative owners, will eventually be stronger for the work that went on to triage and "repair" the damage this caused--and the overall storyline of the league has been forced to pursue will wind up being part of the overall history of the league. But it is actually pretty sad at present to look at what remains of that once quite proud little LRS right now.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:54 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezone13 View Post
As an OOTP online league guy (GM In 5, including AFBL where this guy is a GM), and commish of a very small but personally recruited, league I do find this somewhat frustrating, but unfortunately also very believable that someone could be such a tool.

What this person has not realised is that in doing this, he has broken the trust of not just those in the leagues he 'defrauded' but also damaged the trust that all online league GMs have in their fellow GMs, especially those in the leagues he is currently/was formally part of.

It'll be a long hard road back for this guy to earn that trust again (and he won't be able to with some people which is definitely fair), but, and don't shoot me for saying this, he does need to be given the opportunity to start to earn that trust again However he needs to be willing to be fully transparent in his dealings, and buddy, creating new forum aliases and being a commish is NOT the way to go about it.

Start at the bottom and try to earn some stripes, your previous actions have really damaged things for some people obviously, time to sit up and really think about what you're going to do in the future to try and repair some of this damage.
Well said Mike. As the AFBL commish, this is concerning but I'm willing to give Dale/Charlie/whatever a chance. Don't let me regret this.
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Old 05-27-2014, 11:32 AM   #49
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Well said Mike. As the AFBL commish, this is concerning but I'm willing to give Dale/Charlie/whatever a chance. Don't let me regret this.
You won't regret it.
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Old 05-27-2014, 02:16 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by captaincoop17 View Post
You won't regret it.
You're a straight faced liar who don't even deserve the sympathy of anyone here. Galling that you are speaking as though you really don't see anything wrong with what you've been doing. I haven't seen a single formal apology from you, so you think some pledge to turn over a new leaf (with YET another alias) is going to sway people? To people giving him another chance, have fun getting your league irreparably damaged/hacked/deleted.
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Old 05-27-2014, 03:45 PM   #51
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You won't regret it.
I certainly hope not and I won't hesitate to pull the plug at first signs of suspicious activity. I'm all for giving people a 2nd chance and hope that this is in your past.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:07 PM   #52
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I get the frustration of having someone cheat and ruin a collection of hard work, but really, people? He's a high schooler, a teenager, his brain is literally not finished remodeling from puberty yet. Don't let him in your leagues if you don't want to and don't join his leagues if you don't want to, but let's cut out all the name-calling--does harassing minors make you happy?

Kid, you're on the right path by coming clean here. With every league you join from here on out you need to be completely open and honest about what you've done in the past. Some people aren't going to want to let you join and you're going to have to accept that as a consequence of your actions, but when you find a league that will give you a chance, you can start on your road to becoming a trusted and respected member of the community again.

As an aside--were you, by any chance, Jim Silviera Sr & Jr in NARBL?
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Old 05-27-2014, 09:10 PM   #53
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I certainly hope not and I won't hesitate to pull the plug at first signs of suspicious activity. I'm all for giving people a 2nd chance and hope that this is in your past. .
While it's admirable that you are going to give this kid (that's what he truly is at his age and obvious maturity) another chance, it's far from a "second" chance.

Truth be told, he's already had and floundered multiple chances to be honourable, honest, do the right thing.

As noted in PEBA he was controlling five teams... Prior to controlling multiple teams at the same time, he was kicked out of the league under alias Shannon Franklin for some illicit activity.

He also had more than one team in CBL. These are only two of the leagues we know about, there could be more. Obviously this isn't an isolated incident.

While actively cheating in PEBA, he tried to start up his own league as commish (World Baseball Allegiance). That's where Matt (Calzones) spoke up and put a kibosh to that. Who knows what he had planned for that league. I think it's safe to say that if he went to great lengths to have multiple teams and collude in OTHER people's leagues, he would have done the same in other leagues much more easily.

Then when that all came crashing down on him he created a new alias and AGAIN tried to apply to the PEBA. This is how this came on Calzones' radar this time around. The nerve of this guy who really screwed our league over to create a new name and try to get in on it again.

Then he also under this new alias tried to create another new league in this thread, dragging a well respected group like GM Games into his web of lies too.

When he was first called out in this thread he even had the audacity to try to defend himself and call the allegations BS, all the while knowing the allegations were 100 per cent true.

Even when coming out and admitting his faults, he has only apologized for "disturbing the peace in the OOTP community." I have yet to see a sincere apology to those he has directly impacted, the leagues he has tarnished through his actions.

My opinion, it seems he's more sorry he got caught than sorry for the actions.

So anyway, long story short, it's your prerogative to give him another chance. But is it a "second" chance? Not even close.

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Old 05-27-2014, 09:14 PM   #54
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I get the frustration of having someone cheat and ruin a collection of hard work, but really, people? He's a high schooler, a teenager, his brain is literally not finished remodeling from puberty yet. Don't let him in your leagues if you don't want to and don't join his leagues if you don't want to, but let's cut out all the name-calling--does harassing minors make you happy?

Kid, you're on the right path by coming clean here. With every league you join from here on out you need to be completely open and honest about what you've done in the past. Some people aren't going to want to let you join and you're going to have to accept that as a consequence of your actions, but when you find a league that will give you a chance, you can start on your road to becoming a trusted and respected member of the community again.

As an aside--were you, by any chance, Jim Silviera Sr & Jr in NARBL?
The odd thing in this is, Charlie is actually a great GM. He's online all the time, very attentive to his teams and very engaged in the league.

I made a trade with him in PEBA and he was relentless in pursuing me on it and getting it done and I mean that in a good way. He was good to deal with.

Aside from all the extra garbage he would be a perfect owner or even commish. It's why it's so mind boggling why he decides to do all the extra curriculars.
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Old 05-27-2014, 10:47 PM   #55
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The odd thing in this is, Charlie is actually a great GM. He's online all the time, very attentive to his teams and very engaged in the league.

I made a trade with him in PEBA and he was relentless in pursuing me on it and getting it done and I mean that in a good way. He was good to deal with.

Aside from all the extra garbage he would be a perfect owner or even commish. It's why it's so mind boggling why he decides to do all the extra curriculars.
At the risk of assuming too much and getting too personal with Charlie, but kids don't do this for ****s and giggles. There's almost always something going on in their life that's pushing them to act out in such a way. That teens have an underdeveloped sense of empathy combined with the fact that we all only know each other with numbers and letters on a computer screen makes his behavior unsurprising--but not excusable.

That's why I'm saying we need to lay off the personal attacks. If he doesn't shape up, then no one will play with him and that's on him. If he does want learn from his mistakes, then we should cautiously allow him the chance to prove himself trustworthy again. Justice must be tempered with mercy, or it's only revenge.

That being said, I do think that him being a commish is a bad idea given his current reputation and I wouldn't join a league he was running, though I wouldn't have a problem playing in a league alongside him.
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:49 AM   #56
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let's cut out all the name-calling--does harassing minors make you happy?
Brad, I agree that the name-calling should cease, but I don't think the others are trying to harass a minor. I think they're just venting.

I say this as someone who was a) a longtime member of the LRS, the PEBA sub-league that Charlie single-handedly wrecked and b) the father of a teenager. I fully get that the standard of conduct is different for a teen versus an adult. But to understand why some feel compelled to name-calling, here is more context:

  • The League of the Rising Sun had 12 teams. Charlie took control of four of them -- one third of the entire league -- then engaged the rest of us in numerous trade talks and other nonsense that went on for some time. Many months in real time. This was a well-thought out, malicious scam, and he ruined the enjoyment that many of us had in the unique LRS (I had been an owner since 2009 in real life, nine seasons in-game).
  • Before getting caught, the number of phony trades he created among the four LRS teams he controlled was mind-boggling. The workload on the commissioner is simply processing all these trades was mind-boggling. The damage to the competitive balance of the league was mind-boggling. He outright decimated a couple of the franchises.
  • After being caught, he failed to fully come clean. Matt, the PEBA commish, needed to spend days literally as a cybersleuth trying to determine which of the new owners in the league were real people and which were Charlie aliases. And what happened during that period? A couple of actual new owners were viewed with suspicion, which obviously was terrible for them. They were later cleared, but had Charlie come clean, that would not have happened.
  • After being caught, he tried again to get into PEBA with yet another alias, proving to Matt and the rest of the league that we need to remain vigilant, and causing Matt to turn away from the OOTP forums as a source for new members.
  • Matt and several owners have done an unbelievable amount of work trying to fix the damage Charlie wrought. (The LRS has been contracted to 8 teams for one season, then will be folded into PEBA the following year). It was so much work that I would not have blamed Matt for throwing up his hands and just folding the entire league.
  • Despite all this, the PEBA owners have yet to receive any sort of formal apology from Charlie. Still, he comes here, trying to form new leagues and asking commissioners of other leagues to trust him.

Yes, the name-calling should stop. But I fault no other PEBA owner for coming here to vent.
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:16 PM   #57
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This is why I am so reluctant to join an online league.

Look, Markus, if there was some way to have the leagues checked and then simmed it would be a feature that I know more than a few would welcome. Leagues could still have commissioners that love to run the bulk of operations.
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:32 AM   #58
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This is why I am so reluctant to join an online league.

Look, Markus, if there was some way to have the leagues checked and then simmed it would be a feature that I know more than a few would welcome. Leagues could still have commissioners that love to run the bulk of operations.
Please don't let this guy cause you to avoid online leagues. Online leagues for OOTP are generally a great experience.

In regard to your suggestion to Markus, I doubt anything coded into the game could have prevented what this kid did. What he did was entirely out of game, through phony emails and such.
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:52 AM   #59
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This is why I am so reluctant to join an online league.
Agree you shouldn't let it sour you on joining leagues. If you play online enough, you will encounter the occasional situation like this. I've been playing online sim games for like 10 years and I've seen 3 situations that I would call "ruining the integrity of the league". It happens, then you either fix it or move on to another league.

I think this is WAY more prevalent in other types online gaming commmunities (like MMORPGs).
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Old 05-29-2014, 06:11 PM   #60
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Good points, guys.....thanks!
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