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Old 08-12-2013, 09:54 PM   #1
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Rating Bias

So I've been looking over some of the ratings for various European leagues comparing them to the NHL and AHL and it really seems like a lot of players are rated quite high, too high. That's not just limited to the European leagues, but the NHL as well. Perhaps it's an issue of with the ratings only being out of 20 and not 100.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the people rating the players are doing an excellent job and this is not a complaint as I know how hard they are working away on the tedious job of rating; however, I often wonder how FHM is managing the bigger picture of the player ratings.

The differences in skill between most European leagues and the NHL is very obvious. Even the AHL and NHL, it's a difference of speed to begin with is huge, and I just don't see it in the ratings so far.

It would be neat to have a mass editing tool for the user to use to lower league/gameworld ratings by a percentage of his choosing (this would lower all players in the league and dev leagues. I understand that it would probably be difficult to create such a tool, but would help.

My issue with EAs nhl series over the years is ratings are too high as well. If a player has an 18 level shooting skill, that should be star quality. A 19 and 20 would be generational and quite rare. That's my view. So no player in any other league (or very few) should have ratings that high in certain categories.

Just some of my thoughts. I'd like to hear all of your as well.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:05 AM   #2
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While I tend to agree, you have to remember that the ratings can go above 20, which basically is "generational territory".
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:09 AM   #3
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Well it would be nice to have some names and surnames to start talking about it imho
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro View Post
Well it would be nice to have some names and surnames to start talking about it imho
I accept the challenge Granted, I have yet to take an in-depth look at the database, but after a quick glance at DEL team ERC Ingolstadt these things look not good at all to me:

Michel Periard and Jakub Ficenec (now you ask yourself "who??") are rated higher than NHL veterans like Joe Corvo or Lubomir Visnovksky and actually come close to Dion Phaneuf.

Granted, Ficenec has been a highly productive player in Germany but he's now 36, yet his skating for example is still great (16s). Corvo is comparable in age (36) and has always been solid with nice offensive numbers. But Ficenec is better or equal in every offensive, defensive or mental category (except faceoffs and temperament).

Re: Lubomir Visnovsky. He's a two-time 60+ points scorer in the NHL, yet his offensive ratings are all worse than Ficenec's (including potential) or Michel Periard's, who is also more of a puck-moving, mobile defenseman.

Now a quick comparison between Dion Phaneuf/Jakub Ficenec:
Off. Pot: 765/744
Skating: 16s/16s, 15s
Off. Attributes: totally equal except Passing (18 vs. 17 for Phaneuf)
Def. Pot: 680/625
Def. Attributes: Checking and Hitting Phaneuf is quite a bit better, yet Ficenec leads in Def. Read and Positioning; rest is equal

I hope these numbers speak for themselves. I believe something is out of whack.
However, if these are numbers that are supposed to make the whole database work, then I am not at all surprised that Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux are far and away the most underrated players in the game (which may be more a historical DB problem, but still...).
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:43 AM   #5
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all NHL players but you talked about "European leagues"
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro View Post
all NHL players but you talked about "European leagues"
err... what?
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:50 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by pens66 View Post
err... what?
Sorry, it was the author of the topic, not you
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro View Post
Sorry, it was the author of the topic, not you
Hmmm...dave1927p didn't mention any specific players at all, so I'm not sure he'll know what "all NHL players" refers to



There does seem to be some game weirdness (not based on the researcher's work either)...for example, on the DEL League Settings screen it indicates the "Average" Attribute rating for Offensive and Defensive shows as 12 while "Good" is 9 and "Max" is 11

FYI - I've posted this issue in the researchers forum
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino33 View Post
Hmmm...dave1927p didn't mention any specific players at all, so I'm not sure he'll know what "all NHL players" refers to
Yes, this is why I asked for "names and surnames"
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro View Post
Yes, this is why I asked for "names and surnames"
I prefer to point out things without any proof whatsoever to backup my comments

Over the weekend i'll look it over again and post some examples/impressions regarding this. I guess overall it's not so much a rating bias, it's just a matter of ratings being generally high period.
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:44 PM   #11
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So after the first season, I see the free agency come up. My concern is looking over it there are a ton of 7.5 and 7.0 ranked European players that pop up in the FA market. It just doesn't seem real to me. These guys are coming from all over (Finland, Sweden, CZE, and of course Russia)

My NHL team (we didn't finish so well) is filled with a fair number of 5.5 to 6.5's. Of course there are a number of European players that can play in the NHL, but there isn't this many of them. Also seeing as how they are completely different games in europe and in North America alot of those players could not adapt to the play so i would like to see those ratings decrease drastically (if they do come overseas) for a number of players who don't have a great adaptability attribute (especially if they're older in age)
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:49 AM   #12
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AW: Rating Bias

Can you use this situation with another save, set your team controls to your assistent and sim through that offseason?

Could be interesting to see, if AI tries to sign some/a lot of these euro FA's. I would expect at least some interest from AI trying to sign the young/mid-20 guys to add needed quality to a mediocre team. But I think your team will Not be a "euro-team" after free agency!

Players from euro leagues got a dropoff in ratings. Good euros could reach NHL-level of course. There is quality in sweden, russia ans other top leagues. But it's defenitly worth to look through the rating level of the average euro league Players, if their dropoff is big enough! These middle of the pack guys should be out of AI's interest.

One thing to german DEL ratings. These were set a bit too high and downtuned. So this should adress the comparisons a bit better.


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Old 09-01-2013, 06:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miker G View Post
One thing to german DEL ratings. These were set a bit too high and downtuned. So this should adress the comparisons a bit better.
That would be very good. I had pointed out in another thread that they were too high. In fact, Jakub Ficenec, who can be seen in this very screenshot, was nearly just as good as Jay Bouwmeester and better than lots of veteran NHLers...
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miker G View Post
Can you use this situation with another save, set your team controls to your assistent and sim through that offseason?

Could be interesting to see, if AI tries to sign some/a lot of these euro FA's. I would expect at least some interest from AI trying to sign the young/mid-20 guys to add needed quality to a mediocre team. But I think your team will Not be a "euro-team" after free agency!

Players from euro leagues got a dropoff in ratings. Good euros could reach NHL-level of course. There is quality in sweden, russia ans other top leagues. But it's defenitly worth to look through the rating level of the average euro league Players, if their dropoff is big enough! These middle of the pack guys should be out of AI's interest.

One thing to german DEL ratings. These were set a bit too high and downtuned. So this should adress the comparisons a bit better.


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The screenshot was me simulating the season with AI in control with exception for trades and draft. I had all leagues fully activated. At this point I really can't follow some of their players choices of where they play because it tends to crash on me. Once it's stable i'll track where they go and how they make out in the NHL.
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