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Old 12-08-2007, 02:06 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by silvam14 View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but if I were to complain about shelling out another $5 for a few more features of a game that I love, I would be one of the biggest hypocrites here. I can't even think of what I have spent $5 on lately that has or will give me more enjoyment than a few bug fixes and improvements to a game I absolutely love.

for instance, I just paid for two coffees I bought for myself and my wife this morning cost ~$4.75. The extra beers I bought my friends when we were out last night probably cost me $20. All of those thing have been consumed already and the thrill is gone.

Compare that to hours and hours more baseball enjoyment in the offseason when I am generally playing football games, and the fact that the money is going to help out one of my favorite game developers, and it isn't a big deal to me.

So I've decided I'm not going to act like I am some ultra-ideallistic, ultra-frugal consumer when it come to this situation, because, basically, I'm not one.

my
I am not ultra-frugal, I am ultra-poor. There is a huge difference. If I had more money to throw around, $5 would be nothing. But I don't, and I know I'm not the only one.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:08 PM   #82
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IMO, the correct way to have done this was release patch #4 for OOTP 2007 for free, then have people pay $5 for the new features if they wanted them. If I want a less-bugged version of 2007, I have to pay, and that is not right.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:11 PM   #83
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I am not ultra-frugal, I am ultra-poor. There is a huge difference. If I had more money to throw around, $5 would be nothing. But I don't, and I know I'm not the only one.
I wasn't trying to point anyone out, because I definitely don't know anyone else's situation. I am just stating what my situation is and how I feel about OOTP when compared to most other everyday things I spend money on.

I respect everyone's opinion on the matter
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:11 PM   #84
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Fantastic! Thanks.
It's Randy Ruiz...with 28 HR's, BTW, during 2001 and 2002.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:18 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by silvam14 View Post
I wasn't trying to point anyone out, because I definitely don't know anyone else's situation. I am just stating what my situation is and how I feel about OOTP when compared to most other everyday things I spend money on.

I respect everyone's opinion on the matter
I know you do, you're one of the most open-minded people around. I was just clarifying that I'm not being an Ebenezer Scrooge, I'm being a Bob Cratchit.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:22 PM   #86
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Given that $19.99 is not even a tenner over here I might be tempted just to buy it (does the licence cover two machines again?)

It reminds of a time when I was on holiday in China. We were taking a bus back from the monastery in Zhongdian back to our hotel. We were told it was 1 Yuan and when we got off they charged us 2 Yuan. A couple of people in our group (I have to say they were American) got all irate at this - I pointed out that it was to us paying 16p instead of 8p so at the time it was around 24c as opposed to 12c and even then they were uppity at having to pay an extra 12c...
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:25 PM   #87
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Given that $19.99 is not even a tenner over here I might be tempted just to buy it (does the licence cover two machines again?)

It reminds of a time when I was on holiday in China. We were taking a bus back from the monastery in Zhongdian back to our hotel. We were told it was 1 Yuan and when we got off they charged us 2 Yuan. A couple of people in our group (I have to say they were American) got all irate at this - I pointed out that it was to us paying 16p instead of 8p so at the time it was around 24c as opposed to 12c and even then they were uppity at having to pay an extra 12c...

Difference between me and you (and the Americans in your story); they can afford to leave the state, let alone the country.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:27 PM   #88
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Difference between me and you (and the Americans in your story); they can afford to leave the state, let alone the country.
It was rather unfortunate they could afford to leave their state though...
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:29 PM   #89
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Something we can agree on!


When I was working FT, I would have had no issues paying $5 for the extra feature just to get the patch, even though I would have still considered it bad business practice. In my current situation, I don't have that option.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:31 PM   #90
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Of course, the 900 lb elephant in the room is "How is OOTP going to get away with releasing a game with real players' names?"
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:32 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by magnet View Post
Difference between me and you (and the Americans in your story); they can afford to leave the state, let alone the country.
I didn't mean to come across in a jerky way about $5 or $20. I just know that I blow a lot of cash on useless things and supporting an independant developer was my way of saying thanks.

I know with the large debt load I carry, I probably should put $5 toward a credit card rather than junk or a game, but in the case of OOTP, I did get many hours of entertainment for a small price over the past 5 years since my discovery of OOTP4

Sorry Magnet, I don't know everyones financial matters and maybe should have thought about it before I started lashing out.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:35 PM   #92
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I didn't mean to come across in a jerky way about $5 or $20. I just know that I blow a lot of cash on useless things and supporting an independant developer was my way of saying thanks.

I know with the large debt load I carry, I probably should put $5 toward a credit card rather than junk or a game, but in the case of OOTP, I did get many hours of entertainment for a small price over the past 5 years since my discovery of OOTP4

Sorry Magnet, I don't know everyones financial matters and maybe should have thought about it before I started lashing out.
No offense taken; it's not like our net worth is in our profile or anything!
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:37 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by magnet View Post
No guys, Markus is in my home with a gun to my head and his hand on my wallet.
Quick, ask him about head to head play!
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-08-2007, 02:39 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by magnet View Post
IMO, the correct way to have done this was release patch #4 for OOTP 2007 for free, then have people pay $5 for the new features if they wanted them. If I want a less-bugged version of 2007, I have to pay, and that is not right.
You know, I'd be complaining right along with you if it was not online league compatible with 2007, but it is. If it wasn't then people whose leagues upgraded would be forced to upgrade too just to stay in the league when the other improvements really were not worth it. But this isn't the same as 6.5.

What you have here is an option to get slightly more at a pretty low price. If you still don't feel it's worth it then you're not going to lose out on playing in your favourite online league by not buying. You're just going to lose out on some stuff that you probably don't care much about anyway.

I could however see a bit of a point if someone felt that, as I do, if you buy a game that you shouldn't have to buy anymore for it for a year. That is, it should be supported with patches and what not for at least that time period. If that is where you're coming from then I hear ya. But as long as the fixes aren't critical and can easily be gone without, I can't argue with the measely charge for the new stuff.

As for the complaining about the SION stuff (not by you), give me a break. I'm sure I speak for most when I say thank you for not wasting your time on it and instead spending it on other stuff. IIRC, it was battists who even came out weeks ago and said not all the references to SI would be taken out and I'm pretty sure the main one complaining about this did participate in that thread so he must have known.

Finally, if any SI people are reading this I'd just like to say thanks so much for your contribution to the game. 6.5 was a great game, but IMO OOTP is so much better off for what you guys gave to it. It's style might not be for everyone by I for one like a great deal about it.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:42 PM   #95
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what the freak???

WHere do you buy it - 20 or 5 - I dont give a care - I downloaded it and it takes to the ootp2007 purchase screen after I install and try to license - WHAT THE FREAK!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I use my old license #??
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:42 PM   #96
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Sorry Magnet, I don't know everyones financial matters and maybe should have thought about it before I started lashing out.
I have more than one friend who literally live off of Ramen noodles. Not everyone is well off. To some people $20 is a lot of money - their food budget for the week.

One reason I bought the game in a flash this morning was because I saved over $20 yesterday by eating free gourmet catered food at corporate Christmas parties all day and all night (I even heated some up for lunch today!), therefore I knew without looking there was at least that much slack in the budget.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-08-2007, 02:43 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Anisoptera View Post
You know, I'd be complaining right along with you if it was not online league compatible with 2007, but it is. If it wasn't then people whose leagues upgraded would be forced to upgrade too just to stay in the league when the other improvements really were not worth it. But this isn't the same as 6.5.

What you have here is an option to get slightly more at a pretty low price. If you still don't feel it's worth it then you're not going to lose out on playing in your favourite online league by not buying. You're just going to lose out on some stuff that you probably don't care much about anyway.

I could however see a bit of a point if someone felt that, as I do, if you buy a game that you shouldn't have to buy anymore for it for a year. That is, it should be supported with patches and what not for at least that time period. If that is where you're coming from then I hear ya. But as long as the fixes aren't critical and can easily be gone without, I can't argue with the measely charge for the new stuff.

As for the complaining about the SION stuff (not by you), give me a break. I'm sure I speak for most when I say thank you for not wasting your time on it and instead spending it on other stuff. IIRC, it was battists who even came out weeks ago and said not all the references to SI would be taken out and I'm pretty sure the main one complaining about this did participate in that thread so he must have known.

Finally, if any SI people are reading this I'd just like to say thanks so much for your contribution to the game. 6.5 was a great game, but IMO OOTP is so much better off for what you guys gave to it. It's style might not be for everyone by I for one like a great deal about it.

I agree with this post 100%
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:44 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by magnet View Post
IMO, the correct way to have done this was release patch #4 for OOTP 2007 for free...
It's not as simple as that because OOTP2007 is actually an SI product, legally speaking. Markus isn't part of SI anymore, so there are legal constraints as to what he can and cannot do in regards to OOTP2007 now.

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Of course, the 900 lb elephant in the room is "How is OOTP going to get away with releasing a game with real players' names?"
Because MLB lost its court case, and lost again on appeal. They may appeal it again, all the way to the Supreme Court possibly, but at this point there is no legal constraint against including the real names and statistics. Plus it helps that OOTP Developments is a much smaller company than is Sony/SI.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:45 PM   #99
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You know, I'd be complaining right along with you if it was not online league compatible with 2007, but it is. If it wasn't then people whose leagues upgraded would be forced to upgrade too just to stay in the league when the other improvements really were not worth it. But this isn't the same as 6.5.

What you have here is an option to get slightly more at a pretty low price. If you still don't feel it's worth it then you're not going to lose out on playing in your favourite online league by not buying. You're just going to lose out on some stuff that you probably don't care much about anyway.

I could however see a bit of a point if someone felt that, as I do, if you buy a game that you shouldn't have to buy anymore for it for a year. That is, it should be supported with patches and what not for at least that time period. If that is where you're coming from then I hear ya. But as long as the fixes aren't critical and can easily be gone without, I can't argue with the measely charge for the new stuff.

As for the complaining about the SION stuff (not by you), give me a break. I'm sure I speak for most when I say thank you for not wasting your time on it and instead spending it on other stuff. IIRC, it was battists who even came out weeks ago and said not all the references to SI would be taken out and I'm pretty sure the main one complaining about this did participate in that thread so he must have known.

Finally, if any SI people are reading this I'd just like to say thanks so much for your contribution to the game. 6.5 was a great game, but IMO OOTP is so much better off for what you guys gave to it. It's style might not be for everyone by I for one like a great deal about it.

As an online league commisioner, would I not be doing my league members a disservice by using a buggier version of the game to sim with? Minor or not, all bugfixes should be available for free. I support 100% the idea of paying for new features (whether or not I personally would buy is irrelevant), but the game should still be supported whether we bought it in august or december.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:49 PM   #100
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It's not as simple as that because OOTP2007 is actually an SI product, legally speaking. Markus isn't part of SI anymore, so there are legal constraints as to what he can and cannot do in regards to OOTP2007 now.
Simple. OOTP 2007 users get OOTP 8 for free (the patch), OOTP 8.5 is the patch + new features and costs money. Problem solved.

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Because MLB lost its court case, and lost again on appeal. They may appeal it again, all the way to the Supreme Court possibly, but at this point there is no legal constraint against including the real names and statistics. Plus it helps that OOTP Developments is a much smaller company than is Sony/SI.
Maybe I am reading it wrong, but I gather that the lawsuit only covers real-world stats for fantasy leagues. OOTP would not fall under that blanket, as much as I'd want it to. Of course, I'm not a lawyer (and I don't play one on the internet), so its very possible I have that wrong.
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