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Old 07-30-2013, 04:41 PM   #1
Roy Tucker
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To The Wolf: How I learned to stop worrying and love stats only

I have been an on again off again ootp player since the very first version was announced on usenet. I never really could get into the game even though I desperately wanted to and I couldn't figure out why.

I have been a long time lurker on the forums for several years and after reading thread after thread about stats only, I figured why not? Maybe this is the mode that will finally get me into the game. Did it ever!

Unbeknownst to me at the time, looking at ratings was actually killing immersion. I was so hung up on looking for 8's, 9's and 10's in different categories, that I lost track of actually looking at stats to see if a player was a fit for my team. For me (and I know this doesn't go for everyone), pouring over all the stats for each player to see if he's a good fit or if he's for real helps me connect to my league much more than ratings. I would so often get caught up in the fact that a player wasn't performing up to his rating that it was killing my enjoyment of the game and it was making things harder for me because I would insist on getting a highly rated player even if he had historically underachieved. Now, that thought can't even cross my mind. If a player has bad stats across the board for his career, I am not even tempted.

In my first year stats only, I made the playoffs. I will be interested to see how it impacts my draft. I have not done feeder leagues. I am just doing straight minors and going by scouts. To me this is fine because I know for every Frank Thomas in the first round there are several more Scott Ruffcorns and with that I am off to play another season. Thanks Wolf!
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:14 PM   #2
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You're welcome.

Stats only is not for everyone, but it sure makes the game feel much more fun and realistic to me.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:16 PM   #3
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I do recommend feeders though. I have found that having four years of stats available makes for a much better draft experience for me.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:17 PM   #4
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Definitely like stats only. My only "cheats" are that I still use ratings for defense and peripherals (I don't want to pour through defensive stats), and I still use star ratings (Very good "at a glance" proxy).

I do still lean a little too much on the stars in certain cases, but I still get a solid immersion, and I do have to rely on stats (and scouting reports) instead of looking are bare numbers.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UWHabs View Post
Definitely like stats only. My only "cheats" are that I still use ratings for defense and peripherals (I don't want to pour through defensive stats), and I still use star ratings (Very good "at a glance" proxy).

I do still lean a little too much on the stars in certain cases, but I still get a solid immersion, and I do have to rely on stats (and scouting reports) instead of looking are bare numbers.
Hey Wolf...quick question. What AI eval settings do you use?
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:22 PM   #6
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To everyone else besides the Wolf stop posting replys in here this love letter was directed to The Wolf and Wolf ONLY. Please leave.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:48 PM   #7
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Ratings to 0, of course. I'm running three SO leagues with different year value settings, trying to see which one makes the AI most competitive: 50-33-17, 60-25-15, and 67-22-11. So far 50-33-17 appears to be winning.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:49 PM   #8
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To everyone else besides the Wolf stop posting replys in here this love letter was directed to The Wolf and Wolf ONLY. Please leave.
No way! Let's talk stats only!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:01 PM   #9
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As wolf has said maybe a million times, stats only isn't for everybody (i don't like it, for one). But i'm glad you found a way to play the game that you like. That's what is great about OOTP, you can play it and customize it however you want. That's what puts it ahead of Football Manager and Baseball Mogul for me.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
I do recommend feeders though. I have found that having four years of stats available makes for a much better draft experience for me.
So you just draft based on feeder league stats? Is there anything else you consider? It seems like a lot of amateurs can do really well in HS or college and are ignored by the CPU/amount to nothing as prospects.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:47 PM   #11
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So you just draft based on feeder league stats? Is there anything else you consider? It seems like a lot of amateurs can do really well in HS or college and are ignored by the CPU/amount to nothing as prospects.
Scouts and stats.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:32 PM   #12
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Wolf, or anyone for that matter, I have a question.

Is there a way, to show the league averages for stats? Currently I'm just sorta basing my projections on real life MLB averages for lots of sabermetrics.

Please tell me there is some way to display this, and if there isn't, can we start a petition to get them to add it :P (preferable before OOTP 15, maybe a last second 14.4 Beta addition, I have cookies....and I'm not afraid to mail them to Europe)
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:57 PM   #13
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One thing I wish the game would do for those who want to play stats-only is put something in the player profile where ratings would be. I don't have OOTP14, but for previous versions, having all that empty space where ratings would be looks very strange.

Playing with stats only makes sense, and I could grow to love playing that way, if only the player profile didn't look so strange.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Ratings to 0, of course. I'm running three SO leagues with different year value settings, trying to see which one makes the AI most competitive: 50-33-17, 60-25-15, and 67-22-11. So far 50-33-17 appears to be winning.
I'm considering also making the conversion, but have some questions.

If ratings are set to 0, does that mean that the AI also puts 0 weight on a player's potential? Wouldn't that mean that, in trade talks, the AI would grossly undervalue prospects?

Also, when it comes to those values, I assume that, when you pass January 1, but it's still the offseason or the preseason, "current year" shouldn't be taken literally and it still means the most recently completed full season. But, what happens when the season starts and everyone's current year stats are all just small sample sizes? Does that present any problems with the AI's player evaluations?

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Old 07-30-2013, 09:18 PM   #15
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If ratings are set to 0, does that mean that the AI also puts 0 weight on a player's potential? Wouldn't that mean that, in trade talks, the AI would grossly undervalue prospects?
No. The AI has access to a player's ratings for players with few to no stats. I do not profess to know exactly what it takes into account, but trust me, prospects are valued the same as always.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:01 PM   #16
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I too have been a stats only for about 3 version now and agree with the OP that I was only focusing on rating numbers. I was using 20-80 at the time and would just look at potential ratings and and current.

I have always used feeder leagues and like having 4 years worth of stats to look at my potential pick. My only gripe would be the guy has hit .400 for 4 years but the scout says he has a snowballs chance in hell to be a Major Leaguer.

The only thing I need to do now is find a way to look past coach's ratings. Signing excellent and legendary coaches and scouts seems too easy......any suggestions in this area would be appreciated.

Wolf didn't steer me to stats only but I do believe he has answered some questions for me in the past and for that I'll raise my glass to a fellow stats brother
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:21 PM   #17
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Hey, Roy...don't be a stranger!
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:11 AM   #18
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I have no idea who came up with the idea of stats only, I only know it wasn't me. SO was kicked around for a long time and it didn't become practical until we got feeder leagues that really worked. Now it rocks.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 07-31-2013, 08:14 AM   #19
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The only thing that kills it for me is that you can't tell when a player loses his ability suddenly before making a big signing in the offseason. Or after an injury. If there was some text dialog to help the stats only GM understand when a player is in for a decline, I would be on board. In real life you could just see the decline coming based on his pitch speed going down or looking bad at batting practice. Not the case in OOTP.
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:50 AM   #20
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The thing that kills stats only for me is that it is not realistic.

In real life, GMs have stats and scouts. Sometimes, they say opposite things. Part of the skill is sorting that contrary information and weighing which one is right.

Eliminating one source of information is like playing a PGA event without walking the course or knowing the pin placements. No one would do it.
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