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Old 06-23-2011, 01:53 PM   #1
ukhotstove
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College Baseball

I was going to put it under the title of College World Series but wanted to ask/talk about a few things related to college baseball.

1) Why do they use aluminium bats in the college levels when they know full well they'll being using wooden ones if they reach the pro's, I'll be honest hitting wise I have no idea of the difference, I've used wooden bats but not aluminium.

2) The MLB draft was a few weeks ago but the players drafted are still playing at the college level, do they start getting paid as soon as their drafted or only when the college season finishes. Reason I ask this one is if they get paid soon as their drafted doesn't it break the college rules ?

3) Kind of on the same note, do the MLB teams once they have drafted a college player have any rights on him, can for an example the Yankees tell player B he can't play in the College World Series. Also if player B as a CEI during the CWS do the Yankees get that pick back in the next draft or is it tough luck Yankees.
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:45 PM   #2
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The cynic in me says that they use aluminium bats so that there are more home runs, but it's probably more complex than that lol.

I'm guessing drafted players only start getting paid once they join the minor league team they're assigned too.

The injury thing I have no idea.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:17 PM   #3
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I am by no means an expert. But I do watch a lot of college baseball.

I was going to put it under the title of College World Series but wanted to ask/talk about a few things related to college baseball.

1) Why do they use aluminium bats in the college levels when they know full well they'll being using wooden ones if they reach the pro's, I'll be honest hitting wise I have no idea of the difference, I've used wooden bats but not aluminium.

The #1 biggest reason is cost. A wooden bat is anywhere between $50-350. A metal one for the college level is anywhere between $150-$500. In a lot of programs the cost of the bat is taken on by the player.
Wooden bats of course splinter and break. So you could go through 5-15 bats in a typical 60 game college season per player. Most colleges and college players simply do not have that kind of money.
There is a lot of debate about using wooden bats and not using wooden bats but most of those who are for using wooden bats are ignorant of the economics of the sport. College baseball is a second tier sport at a lot of schools. Way behind football and basketball. Most programs can barely meet their own costs and rely a little bit on the school for financial support.
Some universities are struggling so much that they are going to have to cut their programs. The University of California is a good example.
The only way the NCAA will ever adopt wooden bats is if MLB gives them a payment every year and then it trickles down to the schools.

There are over 280 Division 1 programs. That is a lot of bats and a lot of money.
MLB also drafts from Division 2 and 3 as well. Do you place these players at a disadvantage or do you give them wooden bats as well?
What happens when a Div 1 plays a Div 2 which sometimes happens? Does one team use metal and the other wood?

Unless MLB wants to invest a significant amount of money into providing wooden bats to schools then it is simply not going to happen.

To answer your question about hitting. It does improve your hitting.

Before this current season it was the wild west in terms of bat use. There were no rules in place. Things began to get out of hand and a championship game a few years ago, almost 30 runs were scored.
Then this season they put some rules in place on the types of bats that could be used. It changed the sport overnight and HRs are off 52% this season.
Using a metal bat speeds up the ball about 10 MPH and does produce more power. With the new bat regulations in place I am not sure if any studies have yet been conducted.

2) The MLB draft was a few weeks ago but the players drafted are still playing at the college level, do they start getting paid as soon as their drafted or only when the college season finishes. Reason I ask this one is if they get paid soon as their drafted doesn't it break the college rules ?

Just because a player was drafted does not mean he is signed yet.
The NCAA season begins about the 3rd week of February and goes until mid May. Then you have regionals, super regionals and then the CWS. The entire thing lasts until the last week of June.
Players who are still playing come draft time, usually wait until the late summer to sign.
Some even still continue to play in summer leagues like the Alaska league or Texas League or the most famous and the most elite which is the Cape Cod League
I think I read about 1/7 players drafted will play in the Cape Cod League. I have also read it is equivalent to about AA in terms of quality. I would love to see a game.

3) Kind of on the same note, do the MLB teams once they have drafted a college player have any rights on him, can for an example the Yankees tell player B he can't play in the College World Series. Also if player B as a CEI during the CWS do the Yankees get that pick back in the next draft or is it tough luck Yankees.

This I am not sure about. They hold draft rights on him. But until he signs for the club they cannot really tell him what to do. And no team is going to tell a kid to stop playing. It just doesn't happen. They want him to stay active until the Fall when he will join the fall instructional league. Then they might even encourage him to play winter ball.
If a player does not sign with a team then he goes back into the draft pool next year.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich View Post
1) Why do they use aluminium bats in the college levels when they know full well they'll being using wooden ones if they reach the pro's, I'll be honest hitting wise I have no idea of the difference, I've used wooden bats but not aluminium.

The #1 biggest reason is cost. A wooden bat is anywhere between $50-350. A metal one for the college level is anywhere between $150-$500. In a lot of programs the cost of the bat is taken on by the player.
Wooden bats of course splinter and break. So you could go through 5-15 bats in a typical 60 game college season per player. Most colleges and college players simply do not have that kind of money.
There is a lot of debate about using wooden bats and not using wooden bats but most of those who are for using wooden bats are ignorant of the economics of the sport. College baseball is a second tier sport at a lot of schools. Way behind football and basketball. Most programs can barely meet their own costs and rely a little bit on the school for financial support.
Some universities are struggling so much that they are going to have to cut their programs. The University of California is a good example.
The only way the NCAA will ever adopt wooden bats is if MLB gives them a payment every year and then it trickles down to the schools.

There are over 280 Division 1 programs. That is a lot of bats and a lot of money.
MLB also drafts from Division 2 and 3 as well. Do you place these players at a disadvantage or do you give them wooden bats as well?
What happens when a Div 1 plays a Div 2 which sometimes happens? Does one team use metal and the other wood?

Unless MLB wants to invest a significant amount of money into providing wooden bats to schools then it is simply not going to happen.

Division II Baseball Considering Wood Bats | College Baseball 360


This article not only debunks your 'cost' statement, but also says nothing about players buying their own bats. This article is about D2, so if D2 teams are buying bats; not the players, I don't think D1 is either.

It also says that coaches think that the wooden bats would be cheaper as their price is nowhere near what you posted.

I have a hard time believing that cost is the sole reason colleges use aluminum bats.

Last edited by Cooleyvol; 06-23-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:51 AM   #5
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Vanderbilt's 6'4, 255 freshman Kumar Rocker saves his team's season with a 19 K, no-hitter over Duke in the Nashville Super Regional. In the first inning, Rocker drilled Duke center fielder Kenny Taylor with a pitch near the left eye. Taylor returned from the hospital in the 8th inning, so hopefully he'll be ok. Vandy and Duke match up again today. Kumar Rocker might be a name one will see again at the next level. He threw 131 pitches to complete the game and was still delivering 97 mph heat in the final frame.

Edit: Rocker had never thrown more than 105 pitches in a game and his previous career high in K's was 10. It was also the first no-hitter thrown by a Vandy hurler in 48 years.

Lastly, Rocker broke the school record for K's in an NCAA tournament game (17) set by a somewhat decent pitcher by the name of David Price.
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:27 PM   #6
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The original metal bats hit the ball harder. Thus, causing more hits. You used to get softball scores in games regularly. College baseball has since required aluminum bats to perform more like wooden ones. Therefore, batting averages have dropped in the college game. And since they perform like wooden ones, I believe MLB scouts aren't as concerned about the difference anymore.

As far as cost, I think that is more a concern in HS's, little leagues and such. I'm sure colleges have endorsement contracts for equipment. But athletes are notoriously superstitious & paranoid. They don't like adjusting or changing anything in their routine if they have found a comfortable norm. So even if a player had multiple bats made the exact same way, losing their favorite, for whatever reason, is a big disruption. Mentally, if nothing else. So having an "indestructible" weapon that they can carry thruout the year probably provides peace of mind.

Lastly, this is baseball. There probably isn't any other sport that is more resistant to changing what has become standard. Since aluminum has been the standard in NCAA baseball for, what, 40 years?, and youths grow up w/aluminum, players are probably hesitant about going against the established.

As for the draft, players are not under MLB control until they sign a contract. They are still amateurs until they do.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:15 AM   #7
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I'll weigh in on a couple of points.

1) I played for two different D1 programs in the early 90's that were on completely opposite ends of the budget spectrum. For one of my teams, I am at least 90% certain that they paid for very little, if not nothing, for bats. We would get a big shipment from Easton each year with whatever the hot bat was that they put out in a few various lengths. At that time, Easton's Black Magic was the flavor. I'm sure that Easton wanted to make certain all of the higher profile programs had nothing but their bats being waived around.

2) My other program (and I use that term loosely) had almost no budget for baseball (that could almost be another thread by itself). Everybody had their own gamers. They were one of the exceptions at that level. But most lower level schools define what aluminum bats were intended for: a durability/cost measure.

3) College scores really started getting out of hand after my time when they started introducing titanium alloy and graphite bats. All the bats we used were almost all -3's (Length in inches minus weight in ounces). The newer generation bats started showing up as -7s to -10s. Same shaped bat, same coverage... 33% lighter. Then about 10 years ago, they passed some rules to require certified bats to have the same exit velocity properties as wood, which helped some.

4) I know that for a while (assuming they still do, not sure), the NE-10 (D2 conference) had inter-conference games with wood bats. I'm assuming the schools picked up the bill on some bats, but again not sure on that.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:08 AM   #8
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Two months after playing for the national championship in basketball, Texas Tech's baseball team heads to the College World Series for the 4th time in the past 6 years. Tech's previous appearances in 2014, 2016, and 2018 were the first in the program's history. The Red Raiders sophomore LF Kurt Wilson jacked a 3-run homer in the bottom of the 8th for the comeback win. Wilson is batting a meager .243 on the year and it was only his 4th dinger. Texas Rangers first round selection, 3B Josh Jung, smashed a pair of solo shots over the fence in the 8-6 win over Oklahoma State.

Edit: Jung was listed as a 3B when the Rangers drafted him and I assume that's where they envision his pro career but he played shortstop for Texas Tech in this game.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:33 AM   #9
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As to the draft, being drafted means nothing until and unless a player signs. Many HS players get drafted but go to college. Then they get drafted again, likely by a different team.

That is a big part of the gamble: can the team sign the kid? Many better quality players are drafted in a later rounds then you would think simply because teams do not want to waste a high draft pick on a kid who they think is going on to (or staying in) college.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
Two months after playing for the national championship in basketball, Texas Tech's baseball team heads to the College World Series for the 4th time in the past 6 years. Tech's previous appearances in 2014, 2016, and 2018 were the first in the program's history. The Red Raiders sophomore LF Kurt Wilson jacked a 3-run homer in the bottom of the 8th for the comeback win. Wilson is batting a meager .243 on the year and it was only his 4th dinger. Texas Rangers first round selection, 3B Josh Jung, smashed a pair of solo shots over the fence in the 8-6 win over Oklahoma State.

Edit: Jung was listed as a 3B when the Rangers drafted him and I assume that's where they envision his pro career but he played shortstop for Texas Tech in this game.
And two months after actually winning the NCAA college basketball championship, Virginia actually won the NCAA lacrosse championship, too.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:21 PM   #11
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Also keep in mind that a lot of kids that are drafted, the teams have no intention of signing them. The teams are just taking a flyer to see if the kid makes enough strides over the next year to see if he's worth signing. A lot of guys that I played with ended up being "draft and follow" guys. The big league teams have no control over these kids other than suggesting what they might want to see before offering a contract before the next draft.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
And two months after actually winning the NCAA college basketball championship, Virginia actually won the NCAA lacrosse championship, too.
Cool.

Texas Tech's men's track and field team brought home the national title two days ago. It was the Red Raiders first for any men's team. The 1993 women's basketball team lead by the sublime Sheryl Swoopes has the only other national title for Tech.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:18 PM   #13
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On a related note, the Auburn Tigers are doing to the Tar Heels' baseball team the same thing they did to the UNC basketball team. I thought the 13-0 2nd inning score was a typo @ 1st.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:04 PM   #14
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Speaking of national championships, it is one of life's little pleasures to point out to all my Va Tech buddies that they ain't won a damn thing. Ever.

This usually brings about discussions that end with the old 'dig':

"All dirt roads lead to Tech"

So when this popped up in Google for me, I laughed and still can't stop:

https://vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2018/...mpetition.html
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Two months after playing for the national championship in basketball, Texas Tech's baseball team heads to the College World Series for the 4th time in the past 6 years.
Tech is now in the Final Four of the College World Series after back to back elimination wins over Arkansas and Florida State. The Red Raiders will have to win twice against Michigan to advance to the championship game after losing to the Wolverines 5-3 in the first game of the CWS. Only 4 teams in history have made the final four in both basketball and baseball in the same season.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:13 PM   #16
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Go Vandy! I would pull for Texas Tech but any school that would hire that creep Mike Leach, well, you know.
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:10 AM   #17
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Vanderbilt defeated Meatchicken tonight by a score of 8-2 to take the CWS two game to one.
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