Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.6 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 5 Available

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 19 > Perfect Team

Perfect Team Discover the new amazing online league competition & card collecting mode of OOTP!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-17-2018, 05:38 PM   #1
adion
All Star Starter
 
adion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Thanks: 62
Thanked 709x in 362 posts
Player ratings

How are player rating established? When I get a card/player it has a rating on it. Where does it come from and does it ever change.

Why is the same player rated differently on 2 different teams?

Last edited by adion; 12-17-2018 at 08:37 PM.
adion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 03:22 AM   #2
uschi_baerchen
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Buchholz in der Nordheide
Posts: 90
Thanks: 29
Thanked 15x in 12 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by adion View Post
How are player rating established? When I get a card/player it has a rating on it. Where does it come from and does it ever change.

Why is the same player rated differently on 2 different teams?

The Player Rating determines the probability that it is included in a pack. It also has a high correlation to his Quality. So if you desperately search a very good starter and have an large amount of PP look at the top of the list of the Auction house. You will find Snydergards for as little as 10.000 to Pedro Martinezes for abysmal 180.000.


A Pitcher with Rating 94 is better than a pitcher with Rating 78 - normally. It is you duty to find out, if a pitcher with Rating 78 is not even better than a pitcher with Rating 94 (or at least almost as good but much cheaper since more often on the market). I shall give you a hind: compare Noah Snydergard, who is, if I remember correctly 97, to Michael Kopech, Len Barker or Forest Whitley (who is, if I remember correctly 78), as soon as they appear in the auction house. Is it klicking? (A further tip: when you find one of these and they have a buy at once Price, make shure yoju have enough Money to follow suit, that will be a bargain regardless)


Same Player on Team with different values are same named Players from different years. Josh Donaldson is such an example. He Comes in at least 2 different Settings. But These Josh Donaldsons somehow loose the indication who they are.
uschi_baerchen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 01:32 PM   #3
adion
All Star Starter
 
adion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Thanks: 62
Thanked 709x in 362 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by uschi_baerchen View Post
The Player Rating determines the probability that it is included in a pack. It also has a high correlation to his Quality. So if you desperately search a very good starter and have an large amount of PP look at the top of the list of the Auction house. You will find Snydergards for as little as 10.000 to Pedro Martinezes for abysmal 180.000.


A Pitcher with Rating 94 is better than a pitcher with Rating 78 - normally. It is you duty to find out, if a pitcher with Rating 78 is not even better than a pitcher with Rating 94 (or at least almost as good but much cheaper since more often on the market). I shall give you a hind: compare Noah Snydergard, who is, if I remember correctly 97, to Michael Kopech, Len Barker or Forest Whitley (who is, if I remember correctly 78), as soon as they appear in the auction house. Is it klicking? (A further tip: when you find one of these and they have a buy at once Price, make shure yoju have enough Money to follow suit, that will be a bargain regardless)


Same Player on Team with different values are same named Players from different years. Josh Donaldson is such an example. He Comes in at least 2 different Settings. But These Josh Donaldsons somehow loose the indication who they are.
I understand what you are saying but since the game is not one season long but many seasons (years) why should a players rating, good or bad, be used for all season when the card is only based on one season? It seems to me that since the game plays (simulates) many seasons, not one year, that a players card rating should be based on his total stats for all years. That way it would level the playing field over the all the years.
adion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 01:38 PM   #4
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,808
Thanks: 3,834
Thanked 7,501x in 3,698 posts
It is not a career simulation. It is a series of one-year simulations.
__________________


My Fictional Dynasty: Orcin's Story ; The Sequel: Orcin Returns ; The Conclusion: Orcin's Brave New World
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
BoofBonser26 (12-19-2018)
Old 12-19-2018, 01:41 PM   #5
zrog2000
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 584
Thanked 887x in 528 posts
This crap again. There's another identical thread in the bug report forum.

I can't believe someone complains about the "realism" of a player's card being different for different seasons, while ignoring the fact that time travel doesn't exist.

Last edited by zrog2000; 12-19-2018 at 01:46 PM.
zrog2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 02:12 PM   #6
adion
All Star Starter
 
adion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Thanks: 62
Thanked 709x in 362 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
It is not a career simulation. It is a series of one-year simulations.
That's my point. It is a series of one year simulation. So, why should a players rating, good or bad, be based on one year performance?
adion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 02:33 PM   #7
Fyrestorm3
Hall Of Famer
 
Fyrestorm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,913
Thanks: 2,212
Thanked 2,929x in 1,342 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by adion View Post
That's my point. It is a series of one year simulation. So, why should a players rating, good or bad, be based on one year performance?
The best way to think of it is, pretend this was actually happening in real life. You have a time machine and you are snatching baseball players out of the past to play on your team. You have to take them from some specific point in time.

And so does the dev team. Theoretically, yes, you could come up with ratings for cards based on their entire careers, but that becomes speculatory. Because what are you going to compare them against? Pedro Martinez, Sandy Koufax, and Cy Young were all amazing pitchers, but how can you say one had better Stuff than the others? Who do you put on top, and how do you decide that? They all pitched for different lengths of time, in vastly different eras, against vastly different players, under vastly different circumstances. But pick out a single year of a player's career, and you can then compare them against all the other pitchers that year to determine what their ratings should be. And that's a far superior and more reliable method.
Fyrestorm3 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
CrazyWR (12-19-2018), Dunzie (12-19-2018)
Old 12-19-2018, 04:54 PM   #8
adion
All Star Starter
 
adion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Thanks: 62
Thanked 709x in 362 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3 View Post
The best way to think of it is, pretend this was actually happening in real life. You have a time machine and you are snatching baseball players out of the past to play on your team. You have to take them from some specific point in time.

And so does the dev team. Theoretically, yes, you could come up with ratings for cards based on their entire careers, but that becomes speculatory. Because what are you going to compare them against? Pedro Martinez, Sandy Koufax, and Cy Young were all amazing pitchers, but how can you say one had better Stuff than the others? Who do you put on top, and how do you decide that? They all pitched for different lengths of time, in vastly different eras, against vastly different players, under vastly different circumstances. But pick out a single year of a player's career, and you can then compare them against all the other pitchers that year to determine what their ratings should be. And that's a far superior and more reliable method.
I have been told that the players have been adjusted for ERAs as in OOTP. Let's take Ted Williams for example. He a batted over .400 two different years.Let's say someone has a card for one of those 2 years. Why should he be able to use that card for multiple years when Ted did not? If you use his lifetime average of .344 with some algorithm that changes his average, up or down, between his high and low years at the start of each new year in PT, it seems to me that it would be more realistic. Then you start fresh with each new version of OOTP.
adion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 05:18 PM   #9
Fyrestorm3
Hall Of Famer
 
Fyrestorm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,913
Thanks: 2,212
Thanked 2,929x in 1,342 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by adion View Post
I have been told that the players have been adjusted for ERAs as in OOTP. Let's take Ted Williams for example. He a batted over .400 two different years.Let's say someone has a card for one of those 2 years. Why should he be able to use that card for multiple years when Ted did not? If you use his lifetime average of .344 with some algorithm that changes his average, up or down, between his high and low years at the start of each new year in PT, it seems to me that it would be more realistic. Then you start fresh with each new version of OOTP.
Except outcomes in OOTP are based on ratings, not stats. You can't just plug in .344 for Williams' batting average and have him hit a standard deviation every year. You'd have to determine what a .344 average translates to in terms of Contact, Eye, and Avoid K - which goes back to my point of there being no real objective way to quantify that, especially when you're trying to compare him to other players across all eras.

All of this really comes back to the ratings vs stats thing, because I don't think you really follow how OOTP determines outcomes. Even if you somehow quantified each player's career into a range of ratings, that's not going to get you the results you want because it's not a hard ratio. In layman's terms, the game determines the results of each at-bat individually based on percentages drawn from the ratings of the players involved. So two players with identical ratings will end up having different stats at the end of the year. Even if a player's ratings fluctuated, year to year, it is not only possible, but outright probable that at some point, an 80-contact season will result in a higher batting average than a 90-contact season. So really, all that extra effort would be for nothing.
Fyrestorm3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 05:34 PM   #10
adion
All Star Starter
 
adion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,164
Thanks: 62
Thanked 709x in 362 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3 View Post
Except outcomes in OOTP are based on ratings, not stats. You can't just plug in .344 for Williams' batting average and have him hit a standard deviation every year. You'd have to determine what a .344 average translates to in terms of Contact, Eye, and Avoid K - which goes back to my point of there being no real objective way to quantify that, especially when you're trying to compare him to other players across all eras.

All of this really comes back to the ratings vs stats thing, because I don't think you really follow how OOTP determines outcomes. Even if you somehow quantified each player's career into a range of ratings, that's not going to get you the results you want because it's not a hard ratio. In layman's terms, the game determines the results of each at-bat individually based on percentages drawn from the ratings of the players involved. So two players with identical ratings will end up having different stats at the end of the year. Even if a player's ratings fluctuated, year to year, it is not only possible, but outright probable that at some point, an 80-contact season will result in a higher batting average than a 90-contact season. So really, all that extra effort would be for nothing.
Okay, but I still don't think a players one season rating should be used for all season in PT. Aren't the ratings based on stats?
adion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 06:01 PM   #11
zrog2000
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 584
Thanked 887x in 528 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by adion View Post
Okay, but I still don't think a players one season rating should be used for all season in PT. Aren't the ratings based on stats?
Yes, a player's specific year card is based on the stats from that year. What is so difficult about this topic?
zrog2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Whoofe (12-21-2018)
Old 12-19-2018, 06:21 PM   #12
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,808
Thanks: 3,834
Thanked 7,501x in 3,698 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by adion View Post
That's my point. It is a series of one year simulation. So, why should a players rating, good or bad, be based on one year performance?
Because you are simulating what that player did in that year and not his whole career. For the same reason, you don't use a player's career stats when doing a one-year replay of a season. You use the stats from that year.

PT is not a career simulation. Each year is completely independent of the previous year. You are starting a fresh league each season. That how the game is designed. If you don't like it, that's ok. But that's how it works.
__________________


My Fictional Dynasty: Orcin's Story ; The Sequel: Orcin Returns ; The Conclusion: Orcin's Brave New World
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 06:23 PM   #13
Fyrestorm3
Hall Of Famer
 
Fyrestorm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,913
Thanks: 2,212
Thanked 2,929x in 1,342 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by adion View Post
Okay, but I still don't think a players one season rating should be used for all season in PT. Aren't the ratings based on stats?
Are you saying that a player's ratings should be static, based on an average of all their career seasons? Or are you saying that PT should use random seasons from a player's career year to year? I just want to be sure.
Fyrestorm3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 06:25 PM   #14
damientheomen3
Hall Of Famer
 
damientheomen3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: with my army of orangutans
Posts: 2,650
Thanks: 1,234
Thanked 611x in 379 posts
Zrog, there's no need to get testy about this. Perfect team and the Ultimate Team model can be a tough one to wrap your head around without some prior knowledge.

Adion, think of each player/card as a snapshot of a player, normalized to fit the modern era as well as possible, for the season they represent. The game mode is meant to be less of an OOTP simulation and meant more to use OOTP's variant engine to simulate how these players would perform against other snapshot players of all eras. Thst's why things like development and injuries are turned off, and why each league likely has multiple 100 overall Mike Trouts in the WAR leaderboards. It's not really simulating baseball, more like an arcade simulation of baseball combined with a card-collecting game
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by axezzy View Post
spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
You see, this guy here, he is that guy. Don't be that guy.


Join the VHL today!
damientheomen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2018, 06:34 PM   #15
zrog2000
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 584
Thanked 887x in 528 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by damientheomen3 View Post
Zrog, there's no need to get testy about this. Perfect team and the Ultimate Team model can be a tough one to wrap your head around without some prior knowledge.

Adion, think of each player/card as a snapshot of a player, normalized to fit the modern era as well as possible, for the season they represent. The game mode is meant to be less of an OOTP simulation and meant more to use OOTP's variant engine to simulate how these players would perform against other snapshot players of all eras. Thst's why things like development and injuries are turned off, and why each league likely has multiple 100 overall Mike Trouts in the WAR leaderboards. It's not really simulating baseball, more like an arcade simulation of baseball combined with a card-collecting game
We had an identical conversation about the same topic yesterday on the bug report forum. He even got a reply from a dev. His response? Start a new thread here.

http://site.ootpdevelopments.com/boa...d.php?t=296751

Last edited by zrog2000; 12-19-2018 at 06:36 PM.
zrog2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 05:32 AM   #16
lboston1
Minors (Rookie Ball)
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 44
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14x in 7 posts
Dude, imagine your on a playground with all of your baseball card collection in your hand. And you and your friends, who also have their baseball cards want to play an imaginary game of baseball with those cards. Now you might have a Mike Trout rookie card AND a Mike Trout card from 2018, AND a Mike Trout card from 2016 and so forth. Each year the stats he had in those years were different. Your friends might even have the same card as you and there is no rule that states that only one of you can use it for your lineup.
Now if your imaginary game was based on the stats he produced on THAT card year, and those cards statistics never change, and thus the ratings assigned to those statistics don't change either, and you had to choose your lineups based on that and what cards you had in your own collection, that's OOTP Perfect Team.

With baseball being a bit random with outcomes and statistics, some players will perform more consistently than others over multiple seasons based on the ratings you derived from your cards player statistics for that year.


Its not simulating a career of players, the only simulation is the career of the manager (you) and how you fared each season with your own collection of cards. Add in the randomness of baseball and the difference in lineups (different players around Mike Trout in the lineup, different pitchers using a different pitch, the player being ordered to steal a base or hold, etc.) and no particular outcome being purely guaranteed based on the ratings. This means that your friend using the 2018 Mike Trout card will not have exactly the same statistics as you when simulated over a season, nor will they be the same statistics as the original card.

Last edited by lboston1; 12-20-2018 at 05:35 AM.
lboston1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Fyrestorm3 (12-20-2018)
Old 12-20-2018, 01:49 PM   #17
Mudster
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 296
Thanks: 0
Thanked 36x in 21 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zrog2000 View Post

I can't believe someone complains about the "realism" of a player's card being different for different seasons, while ignoring the fact that time travel doesn't exist.
I was just talking about this next week.....
Mudster is offline   Reply With Quote
7 thanks for this post:
CrazyWR (12-21-2018), damientheomen3 (12-20-2018), JasonC23 (12-20-2018), Lukas Berger (12-21-2018), Thalion (12-20-2018), Whoofe (12-21-2018), zrog2000 (12-20-2018)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:34 AM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments