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Old 01-09-2015, 10:34 PM   #1
rockiesfan4ever
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Pitcher injury issue

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I decided to put it in this section.

I found that when a P gets hurt after the 3rd out is recorded in the inning it won't let you advance without replacing him. This causes an issue when your P is 4/5 spots away and might hit that inning, but might not. I'd rather wait until after my half inning at bat is over before replacing him.

If I need to explain this a bit better let me know.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:22 PM   #2
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It's such a rare situation that I suppose the problem was simply overlooked. If you run into it again, I suggest substituting yesterday's starting pitcher for the injured man, then replacing him with either a pinch hitter or a real relief pitcher, depending on whether his slot in the batting order is reached.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomVeal View Post
It's such a rare situation that I suppose the problem was simply overlooked. If you run into it again, I suggest substituting yesterday's starting pitcher for the injured man, then replacing him with either a pinch hitter or a real relief pitcher, depending on whether his slot in the batting order is reached.
I know that in OOTP9, the game considered the replacement to be the new pitcher and would not allow him to be pinch-hit for or replaced on the mound until he had pitched to a batter. Has this been fixed?
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:48 AM   #4
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I know that in OOTP9, the game considered the replacement to be the new pitcher and would not allow him to be pinch-hit for or replaced on the mound until he had pitched to a batter. Has this been fixed?
It has not. And to comment on what the post above you says, it's isn't really a rare occurrence. "Rare" in my book would be 1 in 1000 or maybe 1 in 100. I don't have HARD numbers to back it up, but the eye test tells me it's more than a rare occurrence.

I imagine it could be a coding nightmare and that's why it hasn't been addressed. If someone from the team could respond, that would be a great help.
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by bwburke94 View Post
I know that in OOTP9, the game considered the replacement to be the new pitcher and would not allow him to be pinch-hit for or replaced on the mound until he had pitched to a batter. Has this been fixed?
Just out of curiosity, how would OOTP handle this situation? In the top half of the first inning, the visiting team reaches the ninth spot in the lineup and wants to put in a pinch hitter for the pitcher. Will OOTP allow it? For that matter, would replacing the starter before he has thrown a pitch violate some obscure MLB rule?
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TomVeal View Post
Just out of curiosity, how would OOTP handle this situation? In the top half of the first inning, the visiting team reaches the ninth spot in the lineup and wants to put in a pinch hitter for the pitcher. Will OOTP allow it? For that matter, would replacing the starter before he has thrown a pitch violate some obscure MLB rule?
Since he hasn't taken the mound yet there should be no problem. It's too bad I just finished ST or I would check this out.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomVeal View Post
Just out of curiosity, how would OOTP handle this situation? In the top half of the first inning, the visiting team reaches the ninth spot in the lineup and wants to put in a pinch hitter for the pitcher. Will OOTP allow it? For that matter, would replacing the starter before he has thrown a pitch violate some obscure MLB rule?
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Since he hasn't taken the mound yet there should be no problem. It's too bad I just finished ST or I would check this out.
I'm not sure that's allowed by MLB rules. Rule 3.05 states that the pitcher in the batting order submitted to the umpires at the start of the game must pitch to the first hitter until he's out or reaches base, unless the pitcher is injured or ill. The rule is listed here on page 32.

The language doesn't specifically address pinch hitting for the pitcher in the top of the 1st, but I'm guessing 3.05 forbids that. I can't find anything else in the rules that might apply.

My guess, though, is that OOTP allows this.
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Old 01-10-2015, 01:36 PM   #8
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I'm not sure that's allowed by MLB rules. Rule 3.05 states that the pitcher in the batting order submitted to the umpires at the start of the game must pitch to the first hitter until he's out or reaches base, unless the pitcher is injured or ill. The rule is listed here on page 32.

The language doesn't specifically address pinch hitting for the pitcher in the top of the 1st, but I'm guessing 3.05 forbids that. I can't find anything else in the rules that might apply.

My guess, though, is that OOTP allows this.
Hmm, if OOTP allows pinch hitting for a starter who hasn't yet pitched but not for a reliever who hasn't, it seems to me that it treats the two situations exactly the opposite of real life.
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Old 01-10-2015, 01:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by TomVeal View Post
Hmm, if OOTP allows pinch hitting for a starter who hasn't yet pitched but not for a reliever who hasn't, it seems to me that it treats the two situations exactly the opposite of real life.
We don't know if that is the case yet. No confirmation has been made.

I think you may have misstated the second issue a bit. OOTP is correctly not allowing you to pinch hit for a relief pitcher who hasn't pitched to a batter yet. The error is that the game forces you to put someone in as a pitcher when an injury to a pitcher occurs at the end of a half inning. This creates the dilemma.
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Old 01-10-2015, 03:24 PM   #10
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We don't know if that is the case yet. No confirmation has been made.

I think you may have misstated the second issue a bit. OOTP is correctly not allowing you to pinch hit for a relief pitcher who hasn't pitched to a batter yet. The error is that the game forces you to put someone in as a pitcher when an injury to a pitcher occurs at the end of a half inning. This creates the dilemma.
You're right. That's the actual problem. If OOTP handles starting pitchers correctly, then we can't complain that it isn't following the MLB rules, even if it's producing a different result from what would occur in reality.
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:05 PM   #11
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Would it be possible for the game to code the injury after the 3rd out, but not have it take affect until he gets back on the mound? That way the game tells you the P is hurt, but you don't have to do anything about it until he is back in action.

I've only encountered this a couple of times over the span of 3-400 games.
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:17 PM   #12
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I'm pretty sure I've pulled starters before they faced their first batter - if I bat around in the first (playing with DH, so pinchhitting is not a factor) I feel that I have enough runs to spot start a long reliever if my bullpen is rested enough and I'd use an ace otherwise. I feel that even my 2 worst long relievers could be counted on to hold the 6-7 run lead, and if not my batters will still face a lot of probably weak pitching that day.

This way my ace won't throw a pitch and will be ready the next day, giving the rest of my rotation extra rest days as well as an improved starter the next day.

However I'm not sure it would work in real life, as starters have a pretty long warmup routine, this would cost them some stamina as well.
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever View Post
I wasn't sure where to put this, so I decided to put it in this section.

I found that when a P gets hurt after the 3rd out is recorded in the inning it won't let you advance without replacing him. This causes an issue when your P is 4/5 spots away and might hit that inning, but might not. I'd rather wait until after my half inning at bat is over before replacing him.

If I need to explain this a bit better let me know.
I can't give you a precise answer about the coding, but the game design clearly requires that all spots in the lineup be filled at all times, period. And when a player is injured, he is removed from the lineup immediately, leaving a vacancy in the lineup, which the game engine must fill immediately.

It is an inherent characteristic of the game engine, and apparently can't be fixed. A related matter: when the AI replaces an injured with another pitcher in the situation you describe, the new pitcher is credited with one pitch. That makes it "legal" for you (or the AI) to PH for that new pitcher or to replace that pitcher with someone else immediately. However, it can cause some unusual results in crediting things like ERs and Win-Loss.

Hope that at least answers your question.
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:47 PM   #14
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I can't give you a precise answer about the coding, but the game design clearly requires that all spots in the lineup be filled at all times, period. And when a player is injured, he is removed from the lineup immediately, leaving a vacancy in the lineup, which the game engine must fill immediately.

It is an inherent characteristic of the game engine, and apparently can't be fixed. A related matter: when the AI replaces an injured with another pitcher in the situation you describe, the new pitcher is credited with one pitch. That makes it "legal" for you (or the AI) to PH for that new pitcher or to replace that pitcher with someone else immediately. However, it can cause some unusual results in crediting things like ERs and Win-Loss.

Hope that at least answers your question.
I understood why it happened, and thanks for your response. I was more curious if it was something that could be fixed or if the developers knew that it was happening.
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockiesfan4ever View Post
I understood why it happened, and thanks for your response. I was more curious if it was something that could be fixed or if the developers knew that it was happening.
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It is an inherent characteristic of the game engine, and apparently can't be fixed.
It would appear not
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
I can't give you a precise answer about the coding, but the game design clearly requires that all spots in the lineup be filled at all times, period. And when a player is injured, he is removed from the lineup immediately, leaving a vacancy in the lineup, which the game engine must fill immediately.

It is an inherent characteristic of the game engine, and apparently can't be fixed. A related matter: when the AI replaces an injured with another pitcher in the situation you describe, the new pitcher is credited with one pitch. That makes it "legal" for you (or the AI) to PH for that new pitcher or to replace that pitcher with someone else immediately. However, it can cause some unusual results in crediting things like ERs and Win-Loss.

Hope that at least answers your question.
Crediting the replacement pitcher with one pitch does not satisfy the requirements of rule 3.05b. The pitcher must pitch until the batter is out, reaches base or the side is put out. I've tried that in-game (pitchout) and not been allowed to make the substitution. One can hit the batter which comes with obvious risk.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:39 PM   #17
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If the program's behavior can't be changed without great difficulty - and I can't offhand think of a fix that wouldn't be tremendously complicated - wouldn't it be better to ignore Rule 3.05b for relievers rather than generate nonsense statistics? The rules of baseball are more mutable than those of arithmetic.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:07 PM   #18
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Obvious fix: Require all injury substitutions to be made BEFORE the game brings the next batter to the plate (if 0-2 outs) or switches sides (if 3 outs).

By doing this, the replacement pitcher will technically have retired the side, even though he gets credit for 0 IP in that inning.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:45 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bwburke94 View Post
Obvious fix: Require all injury substitutions to be made BEFORE the game brings the next batter to the plate (if 0-2 outs) or switches sides (if 3 outs).

By doing this, the replacement pitcher will technically have retired the side, even though he gets credit for 0 IP in that inning.
That's what the game does now, which causes the problem the OP posted. His problem is that the injury occurs on the final pitch of the inning and the game forces him to put a new pitcher in immediately, which he shouldn't have to do. Then the pitcher's spot comes up to hit in the following half inning and he wants to pinch hit, forcing him to waste the pitcher that he was forced to put in when he shouldn't have had to.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:59 AM   #20
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That's what the game does now, which causes the problem the OP posted. His problem is that the injury occurs on the final pitch of the inning and the game forces him to put a new pitcher in immediately, which he shouldn't have to do. Then the pitcher's spot comes up to hit in the following half inning and he wants to pinch hit, forcing him to waste the pitcher that he was forced to put in when he shouldn't have had to.


And it sometimes credits the wrong pitcher with a win, in the event of the lead changing, and holding up, in the ensuinmg half inning.
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