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Old 06-30-2004, 04:03 AM   #1
Ben E Lou
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Very Large Facepack For Fictional Leagues

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...ad.php?t=27386
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:16 PM   #2
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I took a look at your file and I was very disturbed to see you took my work and incorporated it into your own. You gave no mention or no credit to my fictional face packs which you unashamedly added into your file.

My fictional photo packs are only available at one site and I have given this information freely in the past to anyone who inquired. I also posted an announcement in this forum.

I respectfully ask that you immediately remove the images you took from my file. I put many hours of effort into that project and it disturbs me to see someone else take it and re-release it under false pretenses.
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivnLegend
I took a look at your file and I was very disturbed to see you took my work and incorporated it into your own. You gave no mention or no credit to my fictional face packs which you unashamedly added into your file.

My fictional photo packs are only available at one site and I have given this information freely in the past to anyone who inquired. I also posted an announcement in this forum.

I respectfully ask that you immediately remove the images you took from my file. I put many hours of effort into that project and it disturbs me to see someone else take it and re-release it under false pretenses.
Did you not read this?
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Thanks to those who helped me figure out how to do this (Draft Dodger & Shorty3281), and to the guys who actually made these facepacks. (This is a compilation of the facepack work of 4 or 5 different people.) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I never claimed it was my own. We were having a discussion at FOFC about facepacks, and I combined them, and some guys asked for them. Would it be better if I put your name in the information? I'd hate for the OOTP Community to miss out on being able to use these just because somebody wants credit. I don't care about getting any credit. Some people would like to just be able to download them all at once, unzip them once, and be done with it. That's what this compilation allows. Didn't mean to offend anyone, just help out the community.
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
I'd hate for the OOTP Community to miss out on being able to use these just because somebody wants credit.
I'm not sure I like the characterization that I am a bad guy for wanting credit for work I spent many hours on. All you did was took my work and Killebrew’s work, changed the names on the individual photo files, and zipped them up and put them on your web space. You gave NO credit to me or any other of the "4 or 5" guys who did the real work of finding, editing, resizing, and compiling the photos. Now you have all of our work in one big file which now becomes the "Skydog photo pack" without a single mention of anyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
I'd hate for the OOTP Community to miss out on being able to use these just because somebody wants credit.
How is the OOTP Community going to "miss out" on being able to use my photo pack? I have made it available for anyone who asked. Steve Kuffrey added it with the link (with DraftDodger's suggestion) to a list of essential add-ons for OOTP. Why would you make it seem as if you are riding in to save the day by making photo packs available when they are already well known and not exactly hidden to begin with?
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivnLegend
I'm not sure I like the characterization that I am a bad guy for wanting credit for work I spent many hours on.
Um, I didn't characterize you as a bad guy. I'm not sure where you got that.
Quote:
All you did was took my work and Killebrew’s work, changed the names on the individual photo files, and zipped them up and put them on your web space.You gave NO credit to me or any other of the "4 or 5" guys who did the real work of finding, editing, resizing, and compiling the photos. Now you have all of our work in one big file which now becomes the "Skydog photo pack" without a single mention of anyone else.
I think there were some others as well, but I'm not sure. To be frank, I don't know the names. Someone pointed me to a few sites with fictional facepacks, and I started downloading. Shorty told me how to use a utility to batch convert them, and I did so, and deleted the original files as I went to save disk space. By the time it came this morning to uploading, I had no clue what any of the names of the original files were, so I just renamed it that way.


Quote:
How is the OOTP Community going to "miss out" on being able to use my photo pack? I have made it available for anyone who asked. Steve Kuffrey added it with the link (with DraftDodger's suggestion) to a list of essential add-ons for OOTP. Why would you make it seem as if you are riding in to save the day by making photo packs available when they are already well known and not exactly hidden to begin with?
It was my understanding from reading one of the readmes that some/all of the fictional faceparks weren't large enough to have unique faces for every player, plus some extras. That was what I want to have for myself, and then I thought, "Gee, this might be helpful to some other people as well." This thought was confirmed by a few posters at FOFC, like this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fonzie
Ditto. And on behalf of lazy OOTPers like myself who can't bring themselves to actually figure this stuff out on their own, thank you SkyDog.
I really don't understand what the harm is in this. I must be missing something.
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:49 PM   #6
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You f****** elitist Dark Jedi!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by HFP
You f****** elitist Dark Jedi!!!!!!!!!
That's "One True Dark Jedi" to you, thank you very much.
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:54 PM   #8
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I did almost the same thing for my own personal use SkyDog but I didn't redistribute it. If I had created the facepack I would probably feel the same way LL does. Personally, I would have asked permission of the authors of the facepacks you used before you created this package so that a) they know their work is being used in another package and b) they have the option to decline it if they don't want their work redistributed this way. It also sounds like you don't have a link to credit the people who made the facepacks originally and give a link back to their websites. This is pretty common practice for redistributions like the one you have.

For instance, I've created a Scandinavian name file package. I don't care at all if people use it for their own personal use but I would like people to ask me if they plan to redistribute it since I put a lot of effort into researching and making it and I'd at least want an acknowledgment in the README file as well as a link to my website and email address. I'd also like to know who is redistributing it so I can keep tabs on approximately how many people are using it and whether I should bother continuing to update it.
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
Um, I didn't characterize you as a bad guy. I'm not sure where you got that
I thought it was clear with your statement about people missing out on this great file of yours ”just because somebody wants credit." It seems to infer I’d be the bad guy for stepping in the way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
I think there were some others as well, but I'm not sure. To be frank, I don't know the names. Someone pointed me to a few sites with fictional facepacks, and I started downloading. Shorty told me how to use a utility to batch convert them, and I did so, and deleted the original files as I went to save disk space. By the time it came this morning to uploading, I had no clue what any of the names of the original files were, so I just renamed it that way.
I think I am even more upset now than I was before. You admitted to using other people’s work, not caring who did what. You clearly never had any intention of giving credit where it is due.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
I really don't understand what the harm is in this. I must be missing something.
I guess so. Instead of apology, so far all I have received from you is flack for speaking up about my work and a big spin job on how what you are doing “for the community” outweighs any concern of an individual whose work was plagiarized. I asked you remove my files and so far you’ve stubbornly refused.

I've gone from midly upset to disgusted.
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Last edited by LivnLegend; 06-30-2004 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 06-30-2004, 12:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii
I did almost the same thing for my own personal use SkyDog but I didn't redistribute it. If I had created the facepack I would probably feel the same way LL does. Personally, I would have asked permission of the authors of the facepacks you used before you created this package so that a) they know their work is being used in another package and b) they have the option to decline it if they don't want their work redistributed this way. It also sounds like you don't have a link to credit the people who made the facepacks originally and give a link back to their websites. This is pretty common practice for redistributions like the one you have.

For instance, I've created a Scandinavian name file package. I don't care at all if people use it for their own personal use but I would like people to ask me if they plan to redistribute it since I put a lot of effort into researching and making it and I'd at least want an acknowledgment in the README file as well as a link to my website and email address. I'd also like to know who is redistributing it so I can keep tabs on approximately how many people are using it and whether I should bother continuing to update it.
Well, my bad, I reckon. As I said, I had no clue that credit mattered so much.
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:04 PM   #11
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This has me in stitches, see you in another 18 months.
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivnLegend
I thought it was clear with your statement about people missing out on this great file of yours ”just because somebody wants credit. It seems to infer I’d be the bad guy for stepping in the way.
My bad, then. That was not my intention.


Quote:
I think I am even more upset now than I was before. You admitted to using other people’s work, not caring who did what. You clearly never had any intention of giving credit where it is due.
Dude, lighten up. You're making it sound like I set out to earn some sort of internet brownie points for pulling this stuff together. I set out to get some fictional faces for my personal league, and when I was done I thought, "Hey, that was a lot of work. I'll bet some of the guys would appreciate not having to go through all of that hassle." The One True Dark Jedi doesn't have a master plan to redistribute others' work in his own name.


Quote:
I guess so. Instead of apology, so far all I have received from you is flack for speaking up about my work and a big spin job on how what you are doing “for the community” outweighs any concern of an individual whose work was plagiarized. I asked you remove my files and so far you’ve stubbornly refused.

I've gone from midly upset to disgusted.
Actually, I haven't refused. I haven't specifically responded to the request, other than to suggest that if you want, I'd be perfectly willing to add some information to credit you for what you've done. As for deleting those specific files, I thought it could have been easily inferred that I have no clue which files are yours.
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:32 PM   #13
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:32 PM   #14
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Ah, still no apology. Instead, more rhetoric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
Dude, lighten up. You're making it sound like I set out to earn some sort of internet brownie points for pulling this stuff together...The One True Dark Jedi doesn't have a master plan to redistribute others' work in his own name.
"Lighten up"? Again, more spin work. You are in the wrong here, not me.
And I did notice you named the compiled file "Skydog's Fictional Photos" which certainly seems like you are giving at least some credit to yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
Actually, I haven't refused.
You haven't even acknowledged you did anything wrong!
By doing nothing, you are refusing to comply with my request whether or not you verbalized it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
As for deleting those specific files, I thought it could have been easily inferred that I have no clue which files are yours.
I'll make it easy on you. My photos are numbered p3218 - p4853 in "Skydog's Superfantastic Compiled Photo Pack"
Hope that helps.
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivnLegend
Ah, still no apology. Instead, more rhetoric.
If I thought I'd done something wrong, then I'd certainly apologize.



Quote:
"Lighten up"? Again, more spin work. You are in the wrong here, not me.
And I did notice you named the compiled file "Skydog's Fictional Photos" which certainly seems like you are giving at least some credit to yourself.
Speaking of spin, the name is "SkyDog Compilation of Fictional Photos.zip". Furthermore, it was stated clear as a bell that I pulled these together. Your suggestion that I want/need any sort of internet brownie points just doesn't wash.


Quote:
You haven't even acknowledged you did anything wrong!
See above.

Quote:
I'll make it easy on you. My photos are numbered p3218 - p4853 in "Skydog's Superfantastic Compiled Photo Pack"
Hope that helps.
I am unfamiliar with "Skydog's Superfantastic Compiled Photo Pack."
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:42 PM   #16
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Typical etiquette is to give specific credit when using somebody else's creation, and usually only after asking for permission to use said creation.
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer755
Typical etiquette is to give specific credit when using somebody else's creation, and usually only after asking for permission to use said creation.
..and I freely admit that I was unfamiliar with that "typical etiquette." I am quite unfamiliar with the modding community's mores, apparently.
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:49 PM   #18
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I'm so tempted to take a big pot of sh*t and begin stirring furiously.

I better go find something better to do with my time.
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Old 06-30-2004, 01:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
..and I freely admit that I was unfamiliar with that "typical etiquette." I am quite unfamiliar with the modding community's mores, apparently.

But if someone was to take your work (for example, some of your rather fine songs, which were publically available, like on garageband or something), repackage them and then hand the CD out, without your name on them, you'd be pretty pissed off, right? I think this etiquette applies to writing, art, music, on-line league webpages ( ) etc. etc.

EDIT: Anyway, the point is its understandable why people might get a little rankled about something like this, not anyone's done anything malicious, or that this can't be fixed with a few nice consent PMs!

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Old 06-30-2004, 02:11 PM   #20
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This is fun

I can understand both sides of the argument, though the people who created the original packs should be credited.

Man, you think this is bad? I'm involved in the community for another game whose name I won't mention and anyone wants to use so much as one pixel of someone elses work they have to get permission, and if they don't their posts get nuked until they do.
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