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OOTP 18 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 07-23-2017, 02:14 AM   #21
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I am looking for easy improvements that could be made in OOTP19 to allow out-of-the-box 19th century play to be more realistic and also be useful for new users.

One of the reasons this mode gets no love for years at a time is that very few gamers find it fun to manually change all the options or to invent workarounds so most don't play it and this keeps the number of users low which leads back to the beginning of this sentence.

When the minors was constructed for OOTP17 all-star games were disabled by default and playoffs consist of the first and second place teams by default. This sort of stuff could be added to the 19th century as well? Real team names look doable as well.

In the tests using real team names expansion worked well.

Injuries need to default to off 1871-1875?

A few simple changes might garner this mode more users which might in turn generate more interest in investing some developer time in making this mode even better which might generate more users and so on.
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Old 07-23-2017, 02:54 AM   #22
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The basic issue is that no matter what a league is always created with 2 subleagues and you have to modify that.
1. Correct team creation at the start and correct team automatic expansion would be a great start
2. I like the injury idea, I think the default should last till 1885. When playing in 1884 the main complaint if you're playing all 3 leagues you can possibly run low on players
3. Just a personal preference, but I never have the playoffs on. I do play an exhibition series with the NL/AA league winners in the corresponding years, but I think playoffs should be a default off till 1885.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:29 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdragon View Post
What happens if...
1. You just create an 1871 historical league.
2. You disable playoffs, disable the initial draft, and don't check automatic expansion. Some of the teams import correctly, and the other players get put in the free agent pool, where you can use commish powers to put them on the correct clubs.
3. You empty out the American League, add Fort Wayne, and import the as-played schedule for the NL.
4. You then handle expansion manually during the offseason, importing the next year's schedule at the start of the preseason. UA and PL are added for their single years of existence as minor leagues and then deleted.
5. Check automatic expansion after you play the 1901 season. Maybe if everything stays the same the AL won't reset.
I believe i tried it with the draft off and expansion manually but no players showed up. So that is why i use the draft and changed it to 1 round draft.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
I am looking for easy improvements that could be made in OOTP19 to allow out-of-the-box 19th century play to be more realistic and also be useful for new users.

One of the reasons this mode gets no love for years at a time is that very few gamers find it fun to manually change all the options or to invent workarounds so most don't play it and this keeps the number of users low which leads back to the beginning of this sentence.

When the minors was constructed for OOTP17 all-star games were disabled by default and playoffs consist of the first and second place teams by default. This sort of stuff could be added to the 19th century as well? Real team names look doable as well.

In the tests using real team names expansion worked well.

Injuries need to default to off 1871-1875?

A few simple changes might garner this mode more users which might in turn generate more interest in investing some developer time in making this mode even better which might generate more users and so on.
I agree with making it easier for new players but why take away things for players that have been working to improve it?
What i mean is that in previous versions you could edit the csv files and get the real teams and rookies to show up. Now you cant.
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:09 PM   #25
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Any league started in 1871 is going to need to watch injury , rotation, and roster sizes. Its the same as starting a league in 2016 with 2 man rotation, low injuries and expecting results to be the same as the real thing.

Imo if they just changed the league abbreviations from NA to NL and the AA to AL for the teams, batting, pitching and of like we did with the csv files the players would import to their correct teams.
The Players League and Union Association could be manually moved or
eliminated.
What would work better is if Markus added the NA, AA, UA, PL, and FL
league abbreviations to expansion and rookie imports. Not sure why those have never been added and we have been limited to the AL and NL. I know that in previous versions that's all you needed in order to get teams and rookies to import correctly.

From there we could work on a transaction file to match it. Checking for when teams folded and when players played their last game for a team.
I was able to make a transaction list and found it matched up fairly well. There were a few times the roster crash showed up but i think lowering injuries or keeping a player longer might improve that.

I had to use human managers but that was only because i had to make roster moves manually.
I look at it this way. If the real leagues were able to do it then ootp should be able to do it as well since it is only copying what was done in real life.
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:38 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
I agree with making it easier for new players but why take away things for players that have been working to improve it?
What i mean is that in previous versions you could edit the csv files and get the real teams and rookies to show up. Now you cant.
IPR is why. Most companies have things they cannot allow competitors to use. When crafting the minor leagues for OOTP the folks at SABR got nasty when asked to share some of their minor league data even though folks like me gave them that data we had collected for free. Shortly after this exchange the csv files went dark. I am guessing here but I'll bet dollars to donuts OOTP got schooled in intellectual property rights by the SABR people. I am so sure something like this happened I dropped my SABR membership.
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
Imo if they just changed the league abbreviations from NA to NL and the AA to AL for the teams, batting, pitching and of like we did with the csv files the players would import to their correct teams.
The minor league database uses the full team name for these functions so league abbreviations have no impact. I believe the major league database does as well.
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
The minor league database uses the full team name for these functions so league abbreviations have no impact. I believe the major league database does as well.
If that is the case then i wonder how hard would it be have the game recognize the different leagues? Right now i think it only sees the AL and NL in historical league setup.
A league could then be setup with the correct teams without having to do it manually.
Then we would have to go through each season and check injury, roster settings etc and match up the transaction file with a as played schedule.

I always thought the database was changed because ootp used some of its own ratings not included in the Lahman database.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:50 AM   #29
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Quote:
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I always thought the database was changed because ootp used some of its own ratings not included in the Lahman database.
Plus it has grown huge. The OOTP ratings mean nothing much without the game to interpret them.
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Old 07-29-2017, 04:29 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
The minor league database uses the full team name for these functions so league abbreviations have no impact. I believe the major league database does as well.
I found that the League abbreviation does matter as far as teams. I was concentrating on the players and didn't realize i never used my edited team csv file. I changed the NA to NL and was able to get the real teams for 1872
with automatic expansion on and with the rookies on the correct teams.
This is fantastic. Now all i have to do is concentrate on settings for a year and my transaction list.
Much better than having to create the real teams and signing all rookies.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:44 AM   #31
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I was able to edit the transaction file and ran a test by having Barry Bonds traded from the Pirates to the Rangers in 1991. It worked.
Now add that to the fact that rookies can be imported to the correct teams
in 18, i think the the one major obstacle is not allowing automatic transactions before 1901.

If they would allow the automatic transactions before 1901 then Spritze could add the players he mentioned and then we could edit the transaction file and get it to match the schedules. So the not enough players on roster message is avoided. We could also work on settings and if you didnt want to use Spritze's extra players you could block them from the majors or delete them.
We could work on settings for each year. Sure a roster crash may happen but that can still happen in other leagues.
I think it just might work.
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Old 07-29-2017, 06:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
I found that the League abbreviation does matter as far as teams. I was concentrating on the players and didn't realize i never used my edited team csv file. I changed the NA to NL and was able to get the real teams for 1872
with automatic expansion on and with the rookies on the correct teams.
This is fantastic. Now all i have to do is concentrate on settings for a year and my transaction list.
Much better than having to create the real teams and signing all rookies.
Good to know. I will test with NA changed to NL and AA to AL.
For the 1 league years I will change the league to match the AL/NL splits noted in the opening post.
If this works the next step is to see if contracted teams release all their players to free agency as they should.

Since OOTP 18 is put to bed I'll release a Spritze mod with all these pieces in place. It will be an ODB file.

Does anyone know of a modder who could help with inter-league as played schedules for the years OOTP artificially splits one league into two?
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:18 PM   #33
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You could always have switched the league abbreviations in the database, but you had to designate NL or AL. If you have a separate AA, UA or PL it didn't matter. You could have had those teams auto populate in the NL and move them to the correct league. It would have been a great short cut for the creation of those leagues, but manually creating and deleting teams in the NL and AA in say 1887 was never seemingly a big deal. Of course I don't play an AA league as a subleague in the National League. It is a whole separate entity. Same for a UA and PL leagues.
I suppose to make it attractive to new players the AA would have to be created as that subleague within the NL. It would simplify things, agreed, as all AA teams would be designated as AL teams in the database. The players would load to their correct teams, but the as-played schedules would have to be redesigned as both leagues played a different number of games for a number of years.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFIL73 View Post
You could always have switched the league abbreviations in the database, but you had to designate NL or AL. If you have a separate AA, UA or PL it didn't matter. You could have had those teams auto populate in the NL and move them to the correct league. It would have been a great short cut for the creation of those leagues, but manually creating and deleting teams in the NL and AA in say 1887 was never seemingly a big deal. Of course I don't play an AA league as a subleague in the National League. It is a whole separate entity. Same for a UA and PL leagues.
I suppose to make it attractive to new players the AA would have to be created as that subleague within the NL. It would simplify things, agreed, as all AA teams would be designated as AL teams in the database. The players would load to their correct teams, but the as-played schedules would have to be redesigned as both leagues played a different number of games for a number of years.

Its not just getting the teams but getting the rookies to import on the correct teams that i like.. It may have been in 17 but i wasn't able to get it to work.
I had to use the old trick of editing the batting, pitching, and fielding csv files. Back then you had to change the league abbreviations or you would get the teams but not the players.
Im just glad it works.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:48 PM   #35
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Good to know. I will test with NA changed to NL and AA to AL.
For the 1 league years I will change the league to match the AL/NL splits noted in the opening post.
If this works the next step is to see if contracted teams release all their players to free agency as they should.

Since OOTP 18 is put to bed I'll release a Spritze mod with all these pieces in place. It will be an ODB file.

Does anyone know of a modder who could help with inter-league as played schedules for the years OOTP artificially splits one league into two?
I don't think teams will release players unless you have automatic transactions turned on. Which is why i would like to see an automatic transactions allowed for pre-1901 leagues.
This is basically why i use historical managers. To keep the computer from signing and releasing the wrong players. That and its just kinda fun to see how many wins they can get.
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Old 07-29-2017, 11:53 PM   #36
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Gonna start a new league and this time i will let the computer retire players at the end season instead of after their final game. That should help avoid the not enough players on roster message.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:07 AM   #37
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how can I use this .csv file to create a new league?
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:31 PM   #38
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how can I use this .csv file to create a new league?
Its in the Stats folder under the game folder.
Just open the teams csv and change all league abbreviations to AL or NL.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:08 PM   #39
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I don't know how 18 is but you've always been able to change the historical team ID and Historical Franchise ID in the team settings and the NL players always load to the correct team. As long as that team was already created. If it was a team just created, yeah the players were in the FA pool. With a separate league all the rookies were FA. Again, creating the AA as a subleague with the NL would eliminate most of that and all players would load to the correct team. For those that play the UA and PL it would be like we've been doing it.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:03 PM   #40
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I don't know how 18 is but you've always been able to change the historical team ID and Historical Franchise ID in the team settings and the NL players always load to the correct team. As long as that team was already created. If it was a team just created, yeah the players were in the FA pool. With a separate league all the rookies were FA. Again, creating the AA as a subleague with the NL would eliminate most of that and all players would load to the correct team. For those that play the UA and PL it would be like we've been doing it.
As long as it works.
All i know is that before ootp started using the odb file i had to edit the other files to get players to go to correct teams. Just wish i knew it would work sooner.
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