Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.6 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 5 Available

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Out of the Park Baseball 18 > OOTP 18 - General Discussions

OOTP 18 - General Discussions Everything about the 2017 version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-28-2017, 05:31 PM   #21
Calvert98
Major Leagues
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 357
Thanks: 540
Thanked 93x in 63 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
In real life, if you get a pitcher up, you should plan to bring him in. If you decide not to bring him in, then you should sit him down and then get him back up when you're ready to use him.

If pitchers in the pen never got tired, then you could do like in the past and get a pitcher up and ready in the 5th inning, keep him up until you need him in the 7th, and he'd be in perfect shape. Heck, you could start a guy warming in the 1st without any detrimental effect.

Basically, if you like the strategy of deciding when to get a guy warming up to get ready to come in, the strategy of making sure that he's not in the pen for too long is basically no different.
This here is exactly what I was thinking and I really like this option. Itís part of bullpen management. Otherwise, there is almost no impact if there is a way to always have RPís at the ready. For me, itís just an added part of the game.
Calvert98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 05:40 PM   #22
Dargone
Hall Of Famer
 
Dargone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Interwebs
Posts: 2,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 168x in 61 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvert98 View Post
This here is exactly what I was thinking and I really like this option. Itís part of bullpen management. Otherwise, there is almost no impact if there is a way to always have RPís at the ready. For me, itís just an added part of the game.
Totally understandable which is why I think having an option to turn it off should please everyone.
__________________
I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell
Dargone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 05:42 PM   #23
endgame
Hall Of Famer
 
endgame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 16,473
Thanks: 4,370
Thanked 4,044x in 2,179 posts
Certainly like the way everyone looks at the world in a way that best supports their world in OOTP. That's a good thing and I wouldn't expect it to be a singular notion that suits everyone, or even the majority. That's the beauty and burden of OOTP: attempts to please every style and every perspective. It doesn't happen, but it tries.

As for me, I think the manager's involvement should be limited to "Get him up and throwin." and not his call to say he's thrown enough, sit him down. OTOH, it should be no surprise- within my thinking -that the manager motions to bring him in and it may well be the answer is, "That was four batters ago! We sat him down. Give us a minute. Geez!"

Awareness is one thing, simulating realism is another. It generally can only come close and simply can't encompass all of human nature and tendency. Myself? I do not use the warmup function and never have because the AI doesn't use it. Until a time when I can get a message saying the other team is warming up Lozcano (a lefty), I'm not warming up anybody. FWIW

As it is, though, there's probably a way to protect us from ourselves with little or no effect. I completely understand Painmantle's vantage point- in fact, it's mine too. If it happens in the game, it's IN the game. Make it work. That's why I don't allow the bullpen warmup to BE a part of my game. I can't make it work. They aren't. What we could do is allow the pitcher to warm up until ready and if he isn't used quickly, sit him down. This would require the manager to get him up again, but it's probably better than finding he's overworked himself and tired.
__________________
"Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett
_____________________________________________
endgame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 05:46 PM   #24
Calvert98
Major Leagues
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 357
Thanks: 540
Thanked 93x in 63 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargone View Post
Totally understandable which is why I think having an option to turn it off should please everyone.

That Makes sense.

I like it but can understand folks getting frustrated.
Calvert98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 05:47 PM   #25
texasmame
All Star Starter
 
texasmame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Planet Texas
Posts: 1,256
Thanks: 206
Thanked 342x in 180 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by endgame View Post
Certainly like the way everyone looks at the world in a way that best supports their world in OOTP. That's a good thing and I wouldn't expect it to be a singular notion that suits everyone, or even the majority. That's the beauty and burden of OOTP: attempts to please every style and every perspective. It doesn't happen, but it tries.

As for me, I think the manager's involvement should be limited to "Get him up and throwin." and not his call to say he's thrown enough, sit him down. OTOH, it should be no surprise- within my thinking -that the manager motions to bring him in and it may well be the answer is, "That was four batters ago! We sat him down. Give us a minute. Geez!"

Awareness is one thing, simulating realism is another. It generally can only come close and simply can't encompass all of human nature and tendency. Myself? I do not use the warmup function and never have because the AI doesn't use it. Until a time when I can get a message saying the other team is warming up Lozcano (a lefty), I'm not warming up anybody. FWIW

As it is, though, there's probably a way to protect us from ourselves with little or no effect. I completely understand Painmantle's vantage point- in fact, it's mine too. If it happens in the game, it's IN the game. Make it work. That's why I don't allow the bullpen warmup to BE a part of my game. I can't make it work. They aren't. What we could do is allow the pitcher to warm up until ready and if he isn't used quickly, sit him down. This would require the manager to get him up again, but it's probably better than finding he's overworked himself and tired.
Well put. I can't bring myself to turn off warmups - I enjoy that part of the forethought you have to put in to the game. The fact that the computer doesn't have to do it kinda sucks but I still want to.

Boils down to this - make the tiring parameters more realistic (better still, user adjustable) or have the option to turn off "tires when warming up."
__________________
Currently stewarding the 2nd year franchise the MONTANA BIG SKY in the N.L. West.
Currently: July 4th, 69-27, 18 games in first.

"I thought we were going to get pants this time around." - Zappa1

Last edited by texasmame; 03-28-2017 at 05:51 PM.
texasmame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 05:58 PM   #26
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,933
Thanks: 3,983
Thanked 7,685x in 3,767 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargone View Post
The more I think about this the more I think adding a feature that turns it off is the way to go (getting tired in the 'pen). Seems like the simplest solution to me. Of course, I'm no programmer so I could be wrong.
We already have a feature that turns off "getting tired in the bullpen". It's called "no warmup" and it's available in the game options.
__________________


My Fictional Dynasty: Orcin's Story ; The Sequel: Orcin Returns ; The Conclusion: Orcin's Brave New World
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Calvert98 (03-28-2017)
Old 03-28-2017, 06:02 PM   #27
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 14,655
Thanks: 5,263
Thanked 5,177x in 3,164 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargone View Post
Going to have to agree with the OP too. It's silly for a reliever to warmup so much that he's tired. This would never happen in real life. Bullpen usage is a BIG part of managing a baseball club, so turning it off detracts a lot from realism.

I'm actually reading LaRussa's book "The Last Strike" (fantastic read) at the moment and he talks a lot about bullpen usage throughout the book. Getting them up, when to bring them in, lefty/righty matchups, setup roles, closer roles, etc. He never once talks about relievers warming up so much that they tire themselves out. Why? Because it doesn't happen!
Tony never made a mistake though. Just ask him.😀
__________________
Cheers

RichW

"We're supposed to stand up to discrimination, and we're sure as heck supposed to stand up clearly and unequivocally to Nazi sympathizers. How hard can that be, saying that Nazis are bad?"

So much for personality. Albert Belle, a complete nut job was never traded and was the highest paid player in the game, twice!

#Alternativefacts=lies
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
Airdrop01 (03-28-2017), Calvert98 (03-28-2017)
Old 03-28-2017, 06:11 PM   #28
Calvert98
Major Leagues
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 357
Thanks: 540
Thanked 93x in 63 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
We already have a feature that turns off "getting tired in the bullpen". It's called "no warmup" and it's available in the game options.
Yes, that was my first thought when the option issue came-up.

Anyway, again, I found Mattís point to be spot-on, as in the past it really bothered me, and Iím glad there are consequences now; in the past, I would actually ďhouse-ruleĒ it so that (the always ready RP) wouldnít occur. For me at least, it adds more realistic decisions/planning for the player and will continue to use it, but I understand the point on the AI. In the future, it could be an additional factor derived from the coaching abilities. Could be another cool AI management variable.
Calvert98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 06:37 PM   #29
BBGiovanni
Major Leagues
 
BBGiovanni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Republic of California
Posts: 460
Thanks: 340
Thanked 164x in 134 posts
I defer to those of you requesting tweaks to the feature, since it looks it could use some tweaking (such as the pitcher stops throwing while you bat). I don't like it (because the computer of course manages it infallibly) so I turn it off.

Those of you that claim pitchers "can't" get tired in the bullpen have not watched the Giants or Mets. I have seen both teams over the years mangle relievers from overuse, and not just from pitching them too often. Last year I remember seeing George Kontos get up and start throwing more than three different times during a game. I'm pretty sure Felipe Alou keeps Jim Brower throwing in the bullpen right now even though both are retired from MLB :P
BBGiovanni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 06:44 PM   #30
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,933
Thanks: 3,983
Thanked 7,685x in 3,767 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBGiovanni View Post
I defer to those of you requesting tweaks to the feature, since it looks it could use some tweaking (such as the pitcher stops throwing while you bat).
The relief pitcher does stop throwing while you are at bat... IF you sit him down. The player should decide to use the feature or not. If used, all of the complaints are entirely within the player's control to correct.
__________________


My Fictional Dynasty: Orcin's Story ; The Sequel: Orcin Returns ; The Conclusion: Orcin's Brave New World
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 06:44 PM   #31
Reggie
Major Leagues
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 416
Thanks: 115
Thanked 202x in 109 posts
Seems a simple solution is add a "keep warm" feature that you can click on that lasts a half inning or a certain number of batters after he is warmed up.. Then after that is used up you get a notice that he sat back down.

Keep warm mode would be the guy in real life who is watching the game and throwing an odd pitch or two every minute or so. I see that happen on TV all the time.
Reggie is offline   Reply With Quote
3 thanks for this post:
Anyone (03-31-2017), faithful2thecall (04-30-2017), Serious 6 (04-29-2017)
Old 03-28-2017, 07:09 PM   #32
texasmame
All Star Starter
 
texasmame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Planet Texas
Posts: 1,256
Thanks: 206
Thanked 342x in 180 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
The relief pitcher does stop throwing while you are at bat... IF you sit him down. The player should decide to use the feature or not. If used, all of the complaints are entirely within the player's control to correct.
As far as sitting him down during your at-bat - I've already covered how the current coding makes this risky as he'll go cold again to start the upcoming defensive inning.

And, no, turning off warmups doesn't solve the issue which is this - the rate at which guys tire in the pen is flat-out unrealistic as it's currently coded and needs to be adjusted. Taking out part of the very strategy of baseball itself to bypass this flaw is simply not a suitable option.

Maybe a new option to adjust your bullpen *between innings* is the best option here? Something like this:

Inning over. Popup says "Do you want to sit down whosehishead?" just like it does now when you add or remove a player from the pen. Then, the next half inning begins after you make your adjustments. Similar popup for "Do you want to call the bullpen?" in order to get someone up between innings/half-innings.
__________________
Currently stewarding the 2nd year franchise the MONTANA BIG SKY in the N.L. West.
Currently: July 4th, 69-27, 18 games in first.

"I thought we were going to get pants this time around." - Zappa1
texasmame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 07:11 PM   #33
texasmame
All Star Starter
 
texasmame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Planet Texas
Posts: 1,256
Thanks: 206
Thanked 342x in 180 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBGiovanni View Post

Those of you that claim pitchers "can't" get tired in the bullpen have not watched the Giants or Mets. I have seen both teams over the years mangle relievers from overuse, and not just from pitching them too often. Last year I remember seeing George Kontos get up and start throwing more than three different times during a game.

I feel that is something different entirely and already mentioned the "getting them up multiple times" should certainly be something that tires them out.
__________________
Currently stewarding the 2nd year franchise the MONTANA BIG SKY in the N.L. West.
Currently: July 4th, 69-27, 18 games in first.

"I thought we were going to get pants this time around." - Zappa1
texasmame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 07:25 PM   #34
frangipard
OOTP Roster Team
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 734
Thanks: 326
Thanked 560x in 272 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
In real life, if you get a pitcher up, you should plan to bring him in. If you decide not to bring him in, then you should sit him down and then get him back up when you're ready to use him.

If pitchers in the pen never got tired, then you could do like in the past and get a pitcher up and ready in the 5th inning, keep him up until you need him in the 7th, and he'd be in perfect shape. Heck, you could start a guy warming in the 1st without any detrimental effect....

Basically, if you like the strategy of deciding when to get a guy warming up to get ready to come in, the strategy of making sure that he's not in the pen for too long is basically no different.
I suggest three possible fixes/compromises, any of which would be an improvement, and all of them more accurately reproduce real life:

1) When you have activity in the bullpen, there is a small icon or window on the main game screen reminding you of this and showing the status of the reliever.

2) When the reliever gets tired, your bench coach tells you.

3) After hitting tired, or at the end of the half-inning, pitchers automatically sit themselves down and slowly go back to cold (unless you tell him to get back up/keep throwing)


What happens in the game (at least IME) is that you get a guy warming up, then your pitcher gets out of the jam, your mind goes into your team at bat, the screen changes to show your batting order, and you forget about the reliever. By the time you go through your half of the inning and are thinking about your pitcher again, five or ten batters have passed and your reliever is exhausted because he's been (stupidly) preparing to come into pitch while his team was at bat.

This isn't going to happen IRL, both because the reliever wouldn't be that dumb, and because it wouldn't be so easy for you to forget about him; in some stadiums, you might physically see him warming up right in front of you, and certainly a competent bench or bullpen coach would say something if they thought you were being absent-minded. Ergo, all of those changes above do a better job of simulating reality.

Last edited by frangipard; 03-28-2017 at 07:52 PM.
frangipard is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
eck.nicholas (03-29-2017)
Old 03-28-2017, 07:25 PM   #35
BURNS81
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 147
Thanks: 32
Thanked 18x in 12 posts
I like to make it a challenge to see if i can have them throw 100 pitches while in the bull pen. Oh your arm is tired? Well i dont care you better keep throwing rookie.
BURNS81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 07:30 PM   #36
texasmame
All Star Starter
 
texasmame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Planet Texas
Posts: 1,256
Thanks: 206
Thanked 342x in 180 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BURNS81 View Post
I like to make it a challenge to see if i can have them throw 100 pitches while in the bull pen. Oh your arm is tired? Well i dont care you better keep throwing rookie.
The whole point here is that, once a guy feels he's ready IRL, he doesn't keep throwing and, therefore, doesn't get tired.
__________________
Currently stewarding the 2nd year franchise the MONTANA BIG SKY in the N.L. West.
Currently: July 4th, 69-27, 18 games in first.

"I thought we were going to get pants this time around." - Zappa1
texasmame is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Anyone (03-31-2017)
Old 03-28-2017, 07:37 PM   #37
ohiodevil
OOTP Roster Team
 
ohiodevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rocky River, Ohio
Posts: 1,698
Thanks: 546
Thanked 535x in 362 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasmame View Post
For instance, I get my setup guy up with 1 out in the 7th as I am pitching. The inning ends but I'm pretty sure I want him to start the 8th, so I leave him "up" while I bat in the bottom of the 7th. Normal half inning - no big rally or anything. Then, 8th inning comes around and. . . he's tired. I don't dare sit him down between innings, either, as he may get "cold." The system is just off - doesn't feel realistic. I mean, does this mean the dumbass kept throwing? C'mon, man.
Well if you are sure you are going to bring him in to pitch the 8th, why not sub him in for your current pitcher? Then he stops throwing (and won't get tired in the bullpen) and when you take the field he is in the game.....granted he was already warm/ready when the inning is over.
ohiodevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 07:45 PM   #38
Dargone
Hall Of Famer
 
Dargone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Interwebs
Posts: 2,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 168x in 61 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
We already have a feature that turns off "getting tired in the bullpen". It's called "no warmup" and it's available in the game options.
That doesn't solve the problem for people, like the OP, that want to use the warmup feature. However, they don't want relievers getting tired. I thought we've been pretty clear on that throughout the thread
__________________
I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell
Dargone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 07:52 PM   #39
ohiodevil
OOTP Roster Team
 
ohiodevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rocky River, Ohio
Posts: 1,698
Thanks: 546
Thanked 535x in 362 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargone View Post
That doesn't solve the problem for people, like the OP, that want to use the warmup feature. However, they don't want relievers getting tired. I thought we've been pretty clear on that throughout the thread
Another baseball game on the console has a Loosen option when managing the bullpen, and if I recall you can change a guy from Warming Up to Loosen and it lessens the fatigue. I need to check if that is still the case since I just got it today

I see both sides of the argument but to keep people from doing what Matt said earlier in the thread, you need to have some sort of penalty for having a guy doing something other than sitting on the bench.
ohiodevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 07:54 PM   #40
Dargone
Hall Of Famer
 
Dargone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Interwebs
Posts: 2,862
Thanks: 0
Thanked 168x in 61 posts
I don't get the irritation some are having toward a feature that would simply turn off the "tired" parameter? It would solve the Op's problem and those of us who agree with him.

Again, no dog in this fight since I primarily play historical and don't manage games. Why not have as many features as possible that make players happy? Assuming it would be a relatively easy fix. If it would take a lot of coding/time, then I could see the argument. YMMV
__________________
I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell

Last edited by Dargone; 03-28-2017 at 08:02 PM.
Dargone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:21 PM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments