Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.6 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 5 Available

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Earlier versions of Out of the Park Baseball > Earlier versions of OOTP: Technical Support

Earlier versions of OOTP: Technical Support Do you have a copy of OOTP Baseball 2006? Are you in need of help and assistance in running the game or do you have errors that you need help in resolving? This is your place!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-11-2002, 06:46 PM   #41
BleacherBum
All Star Reserve
 
BleacherBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 672
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3x in 2 posts
Post

TECHNICAL INVESTIGATION (the geek stuff):

OK, I resorted to looking at the Windows Performance Monitor. With OOTP4 running (on the startup screen, the following specific measurements are impacted severely:

Processor / %Processor Time - runs consistently at 100%
(near 0% without OOTP)
Processor / %User Time - runs about 95% on startup screen, down to about 70% after hitting "Let's Play"
(near 0% without OOTP)

System / Processor Queue Length - ranges from 3 to 12 with OOTP running, avg is 4+
(ranges from 1-2 without OOTP but while using other apps)

This last one is important, per Microsoft mgmt console help (text reproduced below)

Investigating processor bottlenecks
A processor bottleneck develops when threads of a process require more processor cycles than are available. Long processor queues can build up and system response suffers. The two most common causes of processor bottlenecks are CPU-bound programs and drivers or subsystem components (typically disk or network components) that generate excessive interrupts.

To determine whether a processor bottleneck exists due to high levels of demand for processor time, check the value of the System\ Processor Queue Length counter. A queue of two or more items indicates a bottleneck.

- - -

OOTP Developers - any thoughts on this? Should I provide any other information?
__________________
Right Field Sucks!
BleacherBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 04:40 AM   #42
davep1967
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 176
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5x in 1 post
Post

[quote]Originally posted by cb:
<strong>
I'm running an Athlon XP1600 with water cooling and my CPU temps never go above 36 c.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have the same chip.... What are you using to cool yours with????? You got a link or product name for the water supply/fan ???.. I need one.
__________________
Try the StickWare Schedule Generator!
davep1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 04:56 AM   #43
Scott Vibert
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: My Computer
Posts: 7,979
Thanks: 278
Thanked 231x in 163 posts
Post

Its the memory that this game soaks up, causing the CPU slow down, the database is quite large and for the game to run with any decent speed, the database must be stored in memory. The database will sit in the memory as long as the game is open, which explains your high usage for the most part. (If the game can not store the entire database in its memory the game will go very slow as it has to write chunks of the database to temp files, and one of the most time intensive tasks on any processor is file open/closes; read/writes (along with if statements). Text based games such as OOTP and Champ Manager, will always use up more memory and more CPU than the graphics based games because of the size of the database that needs to be loaded in the computers memory. While the hardware animations require more CPU activity, the activity doesn't require much memory and as a result doesn't take as big of a load on the machine.

In the past firewall/virus check software have been known to cause slowdowns when these are run in the background with OOTP.

The only times I've had issues with OOTP on my scrub machine is before I added RAM (from 64 to 192) the game was extremely slow, and when one of the stupid background windows programs (often systray or winmgmt) hangs up on me, otherwise I don't seem to run into issues with the game overheating my CPU, even if I run AOL, AIM, and IE(and on occaision Excel) at the same time (although running all these programs, especially if you have multiple IE windows and Excel will cause major slow downs and is probably not advisable on a scrub machine like mine).

Edit - If someone wanted to do a test, try creating a league with only 2 teams and only enough players to fill those 2 teams. Check your CPU usage for this, hopefully it will be less than 100%, but I'm not sure off hand. Anyone want to try this?

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: ScottVib ]</p>
Scott Vibert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 06:08 AM   #44
mwolin
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

On my desktop machine i have no problems running OOTP on windows 98. The issue is my laptop with XP. I think the problem is the advanced power management which detects CPU heating and locks the computer up (turns the screen off) and spins the drive down. Others on this board have noted the same problem.

Unless this is fixed, this game will be difficult for laptop users, not just because of heating but because of battery consumption. Oh well..back to DMB on my laptop....
mwolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 07:01 AM   #45
Glen
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

I hate to be a naysayer mwolin, but what games are intended for use on a laptop?

What's the standard battery life on a laptop, between 3 and 4 hours?

So, you're saying that the game isn't even worth playing on your laptop if you get 1 1/2 hours in, but if you get 3, it's all good?

Just one other question. How long can you play DMB before the battery runs out?

I've been running OOTP3 and OOTP4 on Windows 2k machines for the last year and have seen the 100% CPU issue on mine. But it hasn't affected anything on my machine other than CD burning, and I know well enough not to burn a CD when your HD is being accessed by a program constantly. I have never seen a problem due to heat related problems because of OOTP.

Now, my next question would be, how long after you have a "CPU Heat" related issue do you have to leave the computer off before it will come back on? As a person who works and fixes computers for a living, I know that if a system shuts off because the processor is over heating. You can't just turn it back on. It takes time to cool down before it will work again, and more often than not. It's not just an application causing the issue. If a CPU is over-heating, there is usually something else at play, more than likely bad hardware.

Just my 3 cents (That's more than I've said in a while, so it's worth an extra cent.)

Glen
__________________
Colorado Rockies - DBLC
Glen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 07:31 AM   #46
BleacherBum
All Star Reserve
 
BleacherBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 672
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3x in 2 posts
Post

"Its the memory that this game soaks up, causing the CPU slow down, the database is quite large and for the game to run with any decent speed, the database must be stored in memory."

I don't agree with this assessment. Its fine if the game loads a bunch of data in memory. There's still no reason to pin the processor if the game isn't doing anything with that data. Note that my CPU hits 100% constantly, while the game sits on the opening page, or the league setup page. In fact I haven't started a season yet (just bought it last night) and this problem is persistent.

The memory footprint that I witness on game load is around 40MB - my machine has 256MB. I can run other applications (separately) that hog as much or more memory, but they don't constantly pin the processor.

Your comments regarding known conflicts with other programs are interesting - any more detail here? I do have the Norton virus and firewall programs, but those were immediate suspects in my testing and unfortunately shutting them off did not change the behavior of OOTP.
__________________
Right Field Sucks!
BleacherBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 07:42 AM   #47
BleacherBum
All Star Reserve
 
BleacherBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 672
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3x in 2 posts
Post

Since OOTP2 I've noticed that the program has a bug somewhere (or a designed feature) that means whenever OOTP2, OOTP3 or now OOTP4 are running the CPU usage jumps to 100%.

Have the developers been aware of this since OOTP2?!? And if so, what has been their response to this problem in the past?

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: BleacherBum ]</p>
__________________
Right Field Sucks!
BleacherBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 07:52 AM   #48
Khaos
Major Leagues
 
Khaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canfield, OH
Posts: 473
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

The memory has nothing to do with CPU utilization. If nothing on the RAM demands processing at the time, the CPU will not be used by it. Soooooo, what part of the program is demanding CPU cycles while nothing is being done?

I also noticed another common fallacy in this thread. System resources do not represent the amount of RAM being used. You can have 64MB of RAM or 512MB of RAM and with both having the same number of programs open, they will both have the same percentage of resources used.

The resource percentage that Windows monitors is two 64kb chunks of memory. Yep, it's just 128kb of memory being measured. They are set at 64kb apiece because that's the size of data 586 style CPUs like to use. One chunk handles keeping track of what processes are open and running, and the other chunk deals with the GUI, as in what shows up on your screen via how many windows are open.

Increased RAM will give increased performance because the amount of data that can be accessed from it increases and its much faster to access than the hd, but it still only uses 128kb of resources, so no matter how much RAM you buy, you still are limited to how many programs you can run at the same time.

OK, guess time. My theory is that the graphics side of the game is being handled primarily by the CPU instead of the graphics card itself. Before someone puts me in my place as to why I'm wrong and how stupid I am, it is only a guess.
__________________
*squish*
Khaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 01:24 PM   #49
JML
Hall Of Famer
 
JML's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The act or process of locating.
Posts: 2,154
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib:
<strong>

Edit - If someone wanted to do a test, try creating a league with only 2 teams and only enough players to fill those 2 teams. Check your CPU usage for this, hopefully it will be less than 100%, but I'm not sure off hand. Anyone want to try this?

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: ScottVib ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I just tried this. Two teams, 50 players on each, deleted all FA's. Still showing 100% CPU usage.
JML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 01:50 PM   #50
mwolin
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

[quote]Originally posted by Glen:
<strong>I hate to be a naysayer mwolin, but what games are intended for use on a laptop?

What's the standard battery life on a laptop, between 3 and 4 hours?

So, you're saying that the game isn't even worth playing on your laptop if you get 1 1/2 hours in, but if you get 3, it's all good?

Just one other question. How long can you play DMB before the battery runs out?

I've been running OOTP3 and OOTP4 on Windows 2k machines for the last year and have seen the 100% CPU issue on mine. But it hasn't affected anything on my machine other than CD burning, and I know well enough not to burn a CD when your HD is being accessed by a program constantly. I have never seen a problem due to heat related problems because of OOTP.

Now, my next question would be, how long after you have a "CPU Heat" related issue do you have to leave the computer off before it will come back on? As a person who works and fixes computers for a living, I know that if a system shuts off because the processor is over heating. You can't just turn it back on. It takes time to cool down before it will work again, and more often than not. It's not just an application causing the issue. If a CPU is over-heating, there is usually something else at play, more than likely bad hardware.

Just my 3 cents (That's more than I've said in a while, so it's worth an extra cent.)

Glen</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree that there might be a hardware problem although when i spoke to Compaq they thought the software responsible for the computer shutting off. No other program I have behaves this way, using 100% CPU for so long. Tell me, though, what happens when you try to burn a CD?

As far as games on a laptop....simulations are ideal for long plane rides etc. Its too bad this one is not working.
mwolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 01:52 PM   #51
mwolin
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

Does anyone know whether the 100% issue is specific for XP, ie, it seems less common on Win98 and ME machines.
mwolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 05:07 PM   #52
BleacherBum
All Star Reserve
 
BleacherBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 672
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3x in 2 posts
Post

After reading the numerous posts in here, it sure seems that the problem is not OS specific. I tend to believe its related to how the game was designed and/or programmed. And since it is the odd software program that behaves in this manner, I also concur with other's assessments that this is a "bug".

It reminds me of the kid who can have a roomful of toys and somehow be "playing" with all of 'em - can't share a single one.
__________________
Right Field Sucks!
BleacherBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 07:04 PM   #53
Glen
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

When I burn CD's using any application, be it web browsing or just about anything else. Even typing a letter in word, I'll see the disk fail 5 times out of 10. That's just because the CD-Writer wants total usage of the system. It's copying massive amounts of data to a drive that can't write as fast as the data is transfered. Slow that down, and you'll have buffer underuns and other failures.

Same thing happens if I run Eastside Hockey Manager while burning a disk.

I understand that games like this are great for trips and such. But how long of a battery life do you get with other sims? 3 hours?

Allow me to use my hands to close my mouth... Compaq is blaming someone else for a system problem? Say it isn't so.

The only way to get good tech support from a manufacturer is to give them the hard facts. The system is overheating. Period. The fact that any application is doing it is invalid. This shouldn't happen to the system.

All you managed to do is to give them an out so that they could say that it isn't their fault. Believe me, I've been in the biz long enough to know that's all that a tech support person wants you to do, know just enough that you get off the phone with them... hopefully with someone else to blame.

You have a system problem plain and simple, but you don't see everyone else here complaining of processors overheating. Unfortunately, the 100% CPU usage has shown a system problem that you have. Hopefully Compaq will fix it for you, if not... well, you should be sorry you bought a Compaq.

Glen
__________________
Colorado Rockies - DBLC
Glen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 07:24 PM   #54
theDutchman
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

[quote]Allow me to use my hands to close my mouth... Compaq is blaming someone else for a system problem? Say it isn't so.

The only way to get good tech support from a manufacturer is to give them the hard facts. The system is overheating. Period. The fact that any application is doing it is invalid. This shouldn't happen to the system.

All you managed to do is to give them an out so that they could say that it isn't their fault. Believe me, I've been in the biz long enough to know that's all that a tech support person wants you to do, know just enough that you get off the phone with them... hopefully with someone else to blame.<hr></blockquote>

I've returned a couple of laptops to Compaq, no questions asked for repair and they even were kind enough to send me nifty boxes to ship them in.

Bad hardware? Well, there are obviously different degrees of "bad". My home PC's CPU runs alarmingly high temperature readings. I'm not going to replace it until it dies. Should I accelerate that process by running faulty software? I like OOTP4 at 30 bucks, but not at 430 bucks.
theDutchman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2002, 09:19 PM   #55
Yossarian
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

[quote]Originally posted by Glen:
<strong>When I burn CD's using any application, be it web browsing or just about anything else. Even typing a letter in word, I'll see the disk fail 5 times out of 10. That's just because the CD-Writer wants total usage of the system. It's copying massive amounts of data to a drive that can't write as fast as the data is transfered. Slow that down, and you'll have buffer underuns and other failures.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Feel free to slap me but you should get a CD writer that is newer than 1999, they don't do that anymore
Yossarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2002, 07:09 AM   #56
Glen
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

Well, if he was contacting Compaq, it should be under warranty.

As far as the CD burner goes. I do have one that's about a year or 2 old. But, it gets more than it's fair share of use.

Glen
__________________
Colorado Rockies - DBLC
Glen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2002, 09:54 AM   #57
Khaos
Major Leagues
 
Khaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canfield, OH
Posts: 473
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
Post

Get a burner with burnproof. It will eliminate buffer underruns.
__________________
*squish*
Khaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2002, 10:41 AM   #58
marioh
All Star Starter
 
marioh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,162
Thanks: 11
Thanked 9x in 8 posts
Post

I agree with some of the other posters here about RAM having nothing to do with this problem.
I run 256MB RAM and maybe 1/8th of that goes to OOTP. Hell, I'm not even hitting my swap file with OOTP and a bunch of other apps open.

This is a problem with the game itself (100% CPU) and should effect everyone's PC.

I have practically nothing running on startup, even some of the Microsoft recommended startup items, and once OOTP4 starts, my CPU gets pinned at 100% (Athlon 1Ghz). In a way though, I think that 100% utilization is deceiving. I have not seen any performance degradation in any other applications while OOTP4 runs (non CPU intensive apps such as IE, notepad, etc.) and I'm able to switch between programs without any problems. The game seems to be doing nothing, yet the CPU util is at 100%. It almost seems like the game is in a pseudo endless loop awaiting the next user input into the game.
__________________
RZA - "I'm me and the me that's me is me and is going to continue to be me"
marioh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2002, 11:12 AM   #59
BleacherBum
All Star Reserve
 
BleacherBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 672
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3x in 2 posts
Post

Its also disappointing to realize that this is the largest active topic in the Tech Support area, and has been alive for 2 weeks, and we get essentially no acknowledgement of the problem from the developers.
__________________
Right Field Sucks!
BleacherBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2002, 11:31 AM   #60
Scott Vibert
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: My Computer
Posts: 7,979
Thanks: 278
Thanked 231x in 163 posts
Post

This could be because it doesn't seem to be effecting some PC's... so its still unclear if this is an OOTP problem or a PC problem... or some combination thereof. A member of the development team posted in this thread and mentioned that his CPU was only at 68% while running the game...
Scott Vibert is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:11 AM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments