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Old 05-20-2014, 06:06 PM   #21
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:21 PM   #22
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I'm a long time Tiger loyalist as well, and here is my all-time Tiger 25-man roster:

1B: Hank Greenberg
2B: Charlie Gehringer
SS: Alan Trammell
3B: George Kell
UTI: Lou Whitaker
UTI: Donie Bush
LF: Bobby Veach
CF: Ty Cobb
RF: Al Kaline
UTO: Chet Lemon
C: Bill Freehan
C: Mickey Cochrane
DH: Miguel Cabrera
SP: Hal Newhouser
SP: Justin Verlander
SP: Tommy Bridges
SP: Dizzy Trout
SP: Mickey Lolich
RP: Doug Brocail
RP: Mike Henneman
RP: Aurelio Lopez
RP: Jamie Walker
RP: John Hiller
SU: Joaquin Benoit
CL: Guillermo Hernandez
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:42 AM   #23
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I'm not a Tigers fan, but I'm surprised Sam Crawford didn't make it on either of your lists.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:46 PM   #24
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Any one who includes Doug Brocail and Jamie Walker without Frank Lary is weak in the head.
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
Any one who includes Doug Brocail and Jamie Walker without Frank Lary is weak in the head.
You don't know that Brocail and Jamie Walker are relievers and Frank Lary is a starter, do you?

Last edited by chucksabr; 05-21-2014 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Got a little agitated for a moment.
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:12 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Papa3 View Post
I'm not a Tigers fan, but I'm surprised Sam Crawford didn't make it on either of your lists.
I suppose I could put him out there as a UTOF instead of Chet, couldn't I? Good call.
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Old 05-21-2014, 08:26 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan View Post
Did you use the new way of going to Fictional and creating the Multi-Era Historical Teams? If so, did your stats look OK? When I did it, my stats looked weird; I had 20 game winners even though I had only played 2 games!
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:03 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by gglennwill View Post
Did you use the new way of going to Fictional and creating the Multi-Era Historical Teams? If so, did your stats look OK? When I did it, my stats looked weird; I had 20 game winners even though I had only played 2 games!
Yes I did use the "new way" of creating my league. No I did not notice any odd stats, everything seemed as it would be if this were possible.
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Old 05-29-2014, 05:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksabr View Post
I'm a long time Tiger loyalist as well, and here is my all-time Tiger 25-man roster:

1B: Hank Greenberg
2B: Charlie Gehringer
SS: Alan Trammell
3B: George Kell
UTI: Lou Whitaker
UTI: Donie Bush
LF: Bobby Veach
CF: Ty Cobb
RF: Al Kaline
UTO: Chet Lemon
C: Bill Freehan
C: Mickey Cochrane
DH: Miguel Cabrera
SP: Hal Newhouser
SP: Justin Verlander
SP: Tommy Bridges
SP: Dizzy Trout
SP: Mickey Lolich
RP: Doug Brocail
RP: Mike Henneman
RP: Aurelio Lopez
RP: Jamie Walker
RP: John Hiller
SU: Joaquin Benoit
CL: Guillermo Hernandez
You have too many pitchers, and you can't do one of these without Harry Heilmann. Dump Brocail and put him on the team. The bullpen will be fine with starters that are this good. For that matter, I might take Lary over Tommy Bridges or dump Jamie Walker to make Lary the emergency starter/middle man. The best team might be to put Miguel back at 3rd and let Harry DH, since that's likely his best position anyway. It's not easy to pare down all time Tigers to 25, and they had 10 pitchers on the roster for most of their history.
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:35 PM   #30
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Late to the party, sorry ...

In my humble opinion, any GREATEST TEAMS league should never include either teams from the Deadball Era (but I love it) nor the 1980s (which I also love). For these two reasons:

The Deadball Era (1900 to 1919) teams don't have the firepower to match teams from 1921 and after. They just don't. We'd hope and assume that pitching and speed would make up the difference, but it doesn't. And I bet these teams rarely (if ever) perform well in mixed-era leagues. They sure don't do it for me.

Teams from the 1980s (and the 70s, to a lesser extent) are just weak all around. I think one could play a very compelling and entertaining 70s-80s "Best Team's" league, but the 80s ELITE teams (1984 Tigers, 1986 Mets, 1988-89-90 Athletics) don't fare well against elite teams or even "good" teams from other Eras.
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:42 PM   #31
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ONE MORE THING ....

There is only ONE Kansas City Royals team that belongs in any GREATEST TEAMS discussion, and it is not the 1985 team nor (holy God) the 1989 team. 1980 Royals are entertaining, but just TRY getting through an entire season replay with that pitching staff.

It is 1977, hands down. That Royals team was one of the best of the decade, period. The 1985 Royals (especially without Lonnie Smith) can't hit at all. Their pitching is good, but certainly not great. How did they win a World Series? Because it was 1985, that's how.
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:10 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webrian View Post
Late to the party, sorry ...

In my humble opinion, any GREATEST TEAMS league should never include either teams from the Deadball Era (but I love it) nor the 1980s (which I also love). For these two reasons:

The Deadball Era (1900 to 1919) teams don't have the firepower to match teams from 1921 and after. They just don't. We'd hope and assume that pitching and speed would make up the difference, but it doesn't. And I bet these teams rarely (if ever) perform well in mixed-era leagues. They sure don't do it for me.

Teams from the 1980s (and the 70s, to a lesser extent) are just weak all around. I think one could play a very compelling and entertaining 70s-80s "Best Team's" league, but the 80s ELITE teams (1984 Tigers, 1986 Mets, 1988-89-90 Athletics) don't fare well against elite teams or even "good" teams from other Eras.
I agree that the 1980s did not have any monster teams with the exception of the late 80s A's. However I do wonder whether that is because of parity as opposed to the lack of great players. FWIW, I think that the greatness of the 80s players stand up to any decade. The difference is they were spread throughout the league instead of concentrated in two or three teams.

You obviously know your baseball which is why I am surprised at the low regard you hold the 70s. You have the Big Red Machine, The Swinging A's, The 78 & 79 Yankees, the beginning and the end of the decade Orioles and Pirates, along with the second half of the decade Royals. These teams will hold their own against any decade when it comes to both excellence and star power.
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:23 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webrian View Post
ONE MORE THING ....

There is only ONE Kansas City Royals team that belongs in any GREATEST TEAMS discussion, and it is not the 1985 team nor (holy God) the 1989 team. 1980 Royals are entertaining, but just TRY getting through an entire season replay with that pitching staff.

It is 1977, hands down. That Royals team was one of the best of the decade, period. The 1985 Royals (especially without Lonnie Smith) can't hit at all. Their pitching is good, but certainly not great. How did they win a World Series? Because it was 1985, that's how.
I do agree that the 1977 Royals are their best team ever. However, I am partial to the 1980 Royals also. While you may have difficulty winning a season replay, the actual Royals pitching was good enough to win the American League and go to their first World Series. I have to admit I am a little biased. I was fortunate enough to be at the game in August where Brett went over .400. The iconic picture of him at second base with his arms raised is great, but the roar of the crowd, at the time, was incredible. I was also at the first World Series game at Royals Stadium. After they won in the 10th inning I stayed in the stadium celebrating for at least a half hour. The thing I will never forget is leaving the park and driving east on Highway 70. You could hear the crowd noise for at least two or three miles an hour after the game was over. Finally, the 1985 Royals might have been the weakest team of all of their Championship teams, but they are the ones who won the Series.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:28 AM   #34
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Tough to answer this question.

For the New York Giants, maybe the 1922 team.

For San Francisco--I'm sure the 1962 team was great but they played about 20 years before my time so I'm going to have to go with the Giants of either 1989 or 1993...though the 2010 team was no slouch.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:06 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webrian View Post
ONE MORE THING ....

There is only ONE Kansas City Royals team that belongs in any GREATEST TEAMS discussion, and it is not the 1985 team nor (holy God) the 1989 team. 1980 Royals are entertaining, but just TRY getting through an entire season replay with that pitching staff.

It is 1977, hands down. That Royals team was one of the best of the decade, period. The 1985 Royals (especially without Lonnie Smith) can't hit at all. Their pitching is good, but certainly not great. How did they win a World Series? Because it was 1985, that's how.
Just looking at the stats of each of those teams doesn't support for me any how that the 77 team was better than the 80 and 85 teams. What puts them on the top for you?
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:31 AM   #36
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No All-Time Tiger team is complete without the great Gates Brown ,,,,18 for 40 with 3 HRs as a pinch hitter for the champs in 1968 whats that , .450 ?

as the man said, "you could look it up"
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:59 AM   #37
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:30 PM   #38
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1986 Houston Astros
1980 vs. 1986 is tough for me. 1980 Nolan Ryan and J R Richard. I think Richard was way better than Scott. He just didn't have the longevity.
1980
93-70
1st place, NL West
Key Batters HR RBI AVG
C Alan Ashby 3 48 .256
1B Art Howe 10 46 .283
2B Joe Morgan 11 49 .243
3B Enos Cabell 2 55 .276
SS Craig Reynolds 3 28 .226
LF Jose Cruz 11 91 .302
CF Cesar Cedeno 10 73 .309
RF Terry Puhl 13 55 .282
IF Rafael Landestoy 1 27 .247
IF Denny Walling 3 29 .299
C Luis Pujols 0 20 .199
OF Jeff Leonard 3 20 .213
Key Pitchers W L ERA
SP Joe Niekro 20 12 3.55
SP Nolan Ryan 11 10 3.35
SP Ken Forsch 12 13 3.20
SP Vern Ruhle 12 4 2.37
SP J.R. Richard 10 4 1.90
CL Joe Sambito 8 4 2.19
RP Dave Smith 7 5 1.93
RP Frank LaCorte 8 5 2.82
RP Joaquin Andujar 3 8 3.91

1986
96-66
1st place, NL West
Key Batters HR RBI AVG
C Alan Ashby 7 38 .257
1B Glenn Davis 31 101 .265
2B Bill Doran 6 37 .276
3B Denny Walling 13 58 .312
SS Dickie Thon 3 21 .248
LF Jose Cruz 10 72 .278
CF Billy Hatcher 6 36 .258
RF Kevin Bass 20 79 .311
IF Phil Garner 9 41 .265
IF Craig Reynolds 6 41 .249
OF Terry Puhl 3 14 .244
C Mark Bailey 4 15 .176
Key Pitchers W L ERA
SP Mike Scott 18 10 2.22
SP Bob Knepper 17 12 3.14
SP Nolan Ryan 12 8 3.34
SP Jim Deshaies 12 5 3.25
SP Danny Darwin 5 2 2.32
CL Dave Smith 4 7 2.73
RP Charley Kerfeld 11 2 2.59
RP Aurelio Lopez 3 3 3.46
RP Larry Andersen 2 1 2.78

I think 80 clearly had the stronger SP rotation. I liked Darwin and love Deshaises as a broadcaster but Forsch and knuckleball Neikro were better pitchers. That was a hitters nightmare to face Ryan followed by knucleballing Neikro then J R Richard. '86 didn't have that. Granted '86 had Larry Andersen whose trade made Astros fans very happy in the late 90's and early 2000s. Caser Cedeno > Corky Hatcher anyday. I loved Davis and Doran was highly underrated in his day but Joe Morgan was there in '80 and Art Howe was about equal to Davis. Enos Cabel > Denny Walling no debate there.

I think 1980 gets the edge. It was just as good of series against the Phillies as '86 was against the Mets. You don't have a important homerun by a guy later caught with a corked bat either. Hatcher's repuatation just went downhill after '86. Mister it is the lights in the dome that are getting in my eyes that is why I can't catch a fly ball despite the fact he was making errors on the road too.

Maybe I am just a little more attached to the 1980 team. I was 8 years old and my father and I saw some of the games at the dome. In '86 we were overseas seeing replays of the games a week later!

Last edited by Biggio509; 07-30-2014 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 03-28-2015, 11:03 PM   #39
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Just looking at the stats of each of those teams doesn't support for me any how that the 77 team was better than the 80 and 85 teams. What puts them on the top for you?
Hi. It took me a few months to realize I can actually catch up on old threads and see replies. I'm so sorry for not realizing sooner.

The 1977 Royals team tops the 1980 and 1985 versions because of its solidity through and through. The lineup is strong up and down, and there's some depth on the bench. There are no big breakaway hitting stars like George Brett & Willie Wilson in 1980 or Brett in 1985, but there's fewer glaring weaknesses. It's a tough, left-right-left-right hitting lineup that can really string together singles, doubles and triples and the occasional long ball.

The 1977 team also has solid pitching. The starters go four deep (RHP Leonard, LHP Splittorff, RHP Colborn and LHP Hassler) with occasional No. 5 guy/long relief ace Marty Pattin. The back end of the bullpen is a little shaky, but not atrocious. It has a good mix of lefty-righty too.

The 1980 squad has some great offensive performers (Wilson and Brett, especially) and it can produce runs almost as well as 1977 did. BUT ... the pitching is a ways off. Leonard is still good enough to chew through innings and come up with a dominant start now and then. Larry Gura is a strong lefty and Splittorff is OK, but not as dependable as 1977. Rich Gale is extreme hit and miss. Steve Busby is the very definition of gasoline on the fire; you put him on the mound and pray the lineup can score enough runs in five innings to keep up with what he'll give up. And then you turn to the bullpen, which outside of Dan Quisenberry is shaky at best. It's bad.

The 1985 team has solid starting pitching and an average bullpen anchored by a still-dependable Quiz. The lineup is fall-down-laughing listless — especially if you go by the CON/POW ratings bestowed on the hitters by OOTP. Even for a mid-1980s team, it's one that you look at and wonder how on Earth they strung 91 wins together and won the World Series. Outside of the still-excellent Brett and the occasional bomb from Steve Balboni (who hits into lots of DPs and strikes out a lot), that lineup has to grind out every run it gets — like the 2014 Royals did, but with less overall speed.

That's my reasoning, anyway.
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:43 AM   #40
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