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Old 06-10-2006, 04:49 PM   #1
jbsnadb
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SOme things that have been bugging me...

I was asked by those in the general forum to repost this here, so I am!

Quote:
There have been a few things about the game play that have been bugging me...

There's no such thing as a botched play

Sure, errors happen, but have you noticed that everytime the fielder completely screws up going after the ball, they make the play? Lost in the lights? Makes the catch. Falls on his ass? Makes the catch. Trips over his shoelaces? Makes the catch. Does the hokey pokey and he turns himself around? You guessed it. Makes the catch.

Easy pop up to shallow center? Off the tip of his glove!

Go ahead, take third...

Even on ground balls TO THIRD, runners on second almost always move up. That, and there are almost as many stolen bases at third then there are at second.

It's a booming fly ball...

I know this was done so you wouldn't know what the result of the play was right away, but everytime it's belted, slammed, crushed, etc. it rarely makes it out.

Juuuuusssst a bit outside...

While things have calmed down a bit after the patch was released, wild pitches are rampant in this version.

Go ahead, score. I'll let ya...

On my team, I have a CF with a 16 arm, and a 20 defensive rating (on a scale of 1-20) who almost never tries to throw anyone out. Say there are runners on first and second. Routine grounder makes it to center, runner from second heads home, runner on first heads to third. Two baserunners, ripe for the picking. CF just throws it in. Often.

It's a double...it's always a double

No one who goes for two is EVER thrown out at second. If he's thinkin' two, he'll get two.

Up is down and down is up...

Sometimes the PxP is disconnected from what is really happening. The RF has to call off the CF on a fly ball in foul territory (?) A deep fly ball which your LF charges to get at the warning track. Where I come from, charging implies the fielder is coming in, not going out.

It's a WHAT?!?!?!?!

Raise your hand if you have ever heard of a walk being called an "Annie Oakley". Didn't think so.

This list is by no means exhaustive, and I want to say that I LOVE OOTP, and have for many versions. Everyone involved has done a wonderful job, and are doing their best to improve the game by the day.
Feel free to add your own, so we can hunt these things down and make them better.
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:17 PM   #2
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OK....... here are some PbPs that don't quite come off...

[12-11308] the count is two balls and one strikes.
[12-25] we have a count of one balls and one strikes.
Neither works if the variable for strikes and/or balls is one.

Each of these two initial sequences is followed by a blank line before the commentary resumes. Looks like something gets missed:
[193-11444] Damon is the hitter....
[193-11428] Varitek steps into the box...

Here's a double play that doesn't get a mention in the commentary. With one down and runner on first, we get:
[12-11323] the count on Ramirez is 2-1
[186-8569] Jake Westbrook into the stretch...
pauses...
comes home with it...
[189-11365] Ramirez with a swing...
That's three down...
they score 2 runs on 3 hits.

and....
[161-13580] Go to war, Miss Agnes!
...who is Miss Agnes?

Ian
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:37 PM   #3
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http://www.newsday.com/sports/footba...ball-headlines

Go to War, Miss Agnes, you asked? Why, you asked?

This is what happens when you have Old School people write PbP. They have voices in their heads of game calls that long ago faded into the mystic chords of memory.

Future PbP writers ought to realize that they are standing on the shoulders of giants and realize that there is a vast amount of baseball history to draw upon. Sometimes what is in the game sounds a bit odd to the modern ear. If my grandfather read that PbP, he would have a hoot.

Chuck Thompson is one of the guys that inspires the text team. As he is in Cooperstown, he's probably a good role model.
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:45 PM   #4
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Thanks for that, Raidergoo.

I'd actually Googled the phrase and got 150 hits that told me all about Chuck Thompson. But none of them seemed to know the origin or derivation of Miss Agnes. His other, frequently used catch-phrase, I learned, was "aint the beer cold". That might explain it

Ian
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:34 AM   #5
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..some further PbP hiccups...... (btw - playing with the patch)

[170-11235] Ramirez hits it on the right on the nose right at the shortstop...
I think I know where he hit it.....

Here's an example of a fielder calling himself off..
[239-14258] Stern appears to have a bead on it...
also on the move is Stern...
but he's waved off by Stern...
[246-12351] he pulls it down...
one down...

An odd sort of ball...
he got him on a [317-6336] perfectly placed changeup changeup!
one down...

This one just isn't right.....
[168-7871] tapper to Gonzalez at short...
fires to Youkilis at first for the first out of the Toronto half of the bottom of the third inning.
I didn't see the other team play in their half of the bottom of the third inning....

Ian
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:22 AM   #6
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http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=119577

There is a major file revision going on in this thread; you can watch it being edited in real time.

When you have nits to pick with the PbP, it is absolute GOLD to use the object and text tokens. It makes tracking down issues instantaneous.

English.xml will be a much cleaner file after tysok's attack on it. Maybe we need to get you a copy, too.

There is nothing like having many eyeballs looking at the written word and tearing it apart on grammar and spelling.

If you want to mount your own attack on this file, put your points of concern here and I shall ping RBLwebguy that he has a new boon companion.

Last edited by Raidergoo; 06-11-2006 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 06-11-2006, 04:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Collins
..some further PbP hiccups...... (btw - playing with the patch)

This one just isn't right.....
[168-7871] tapper to Gonzalez at short...
fires to Youkilis at first for the first out of the Toronto half of the bottom of the third inning.
I didn't see the other team play in their half of the bottom of the third inning....

Ian

Hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Oh yes... there was some in there that were quite funny. Maybe I was Miss Agnes, I delcared war upon the xml file and after many long hours found a bunch of problems that they'll be fixing as they have time... I burned RBL out for a bit, but we just need fill him up on coffee again and he'll run for a few more days.

I've been trying to figure out how I might turn the xml into what the game would actually call, without having to go through the game itself but haven't been able to. That would help with some hidden things like apostrophes or commas etc. When all the problems are fixed that are indeed incorrect (I was trying to deduce what the call would say by how the token was used elsewhere for most of my reading) and I get a fresh copy I'll reread the pbp again.

Of course I can't replicate how the call will go, but right now I'm reading something like "he can9090434t get to it, that'll be a [%game ball] [%game strike] double to [%game ball direction]. [%game rightfield] will fire it to [%game firstbase]. [%game outs long word] in the inning." That can get mighty confusing trying to turn those tokens into words while I'm reading it.

It'll be a lot cleaner shortly, and the right on the right on the nose right to thing is definately found.
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Old 06-11-2006, 04:46 PM   #8
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You need to turn debugging on.

C:\Program Files\Sports Interactive\OOTP Baseball 2006\data\config\

Open APP in Notepad.

add_debug_info_to_in_game_commentary
0

change 0 to 1

dump_in_game_commentary_to_file
0

change 0 to 1

Save work.

Open OOTP2006, sim a day with games.

You will have a log with PbP calls from every game that day in a txt file. I think the file is written to C:\Program Files\Sports Interactive\OOTP Baseball 2006\data\database but I cant remember.

Remember that if you do this you cannot see any PbP in a game ever again until you reverse the change in the app file.

Last edited by Raidergoo; 06-11-2006 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 06-11-2006, 05:36 PM   #9
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Doesn't seem to write a file anywhere for me... I'm not installed in the default directory but that shouldn't matter.

I'm apparently the only one in the world that wants to assign the tokens a value and see the output in final text form... since I can't find any help on the internet about how I might do it. Actually I see ideas hinting of how I could do it, but I'd have to learn a programming language to do so.
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Old 06-11-2006, 05:49 PM   #10
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Ah ha and stuff...

I found where it writes the file... sneaky! Well... not so sneaky... I looked there but didn't see it... so windows is sneaky.... something is sneaky at least...
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Collins
Thanks for that, Raidergoo.

I'd actually Googled the phrase and got 150 hits that told me all about Chuck Thompson. But none of them seemed to know the origin or derivation of Miss Agnes. His other, frequently used catch-phrase, I learned, was "aint the beer cold". That might explain it

Ian
Chuck Thompson actually got the "go to war, Miss Agnes!" from a golfing partner who refused to curse, or so I recall from his biography. He abandoned the call in the midst of the Vietnam War in order not to offend anyone.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:22 AM   #12
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The pbp is 1000% better than 6.5. I'll try and post a list of glitches sometime, but it's so much better, glitches and all, that I honestly don't mind.
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:02 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdragon
The pbp is 1000% better than 6.5. I'll try and post a list of glitches sometime, but it's so much better, glitches and all, that I honestly don't mind.
I played OOTP 5 until I got this game, and I agree. In 5 I'd rarely read the pbp anymore, the first few words told me exactly what happened and I skipped the rest. This is much better.

I think it could be even better... not that the guys writing it haven't done an excellent job (750+ pages of text), but as a writer I see very big possibilities... but the first step is to work out all the glitches, both in the game (baserunner moving on to 3rd via a grounder to third) and the xml file.

I've found a lot of glaring errors that the text guys are working through right now. They've worked hard on my pages of found problems, and will surely continue doing so. Anything I can do to help them I'll gladly do (including spending approximately 55 total hours last week reading every line of the xml file) because I think the play by play is an extremely important part of playing out the game... it can either draw you into the game, or it can be a mere listing of what just happened.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:22 AM   #14
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One of the great things about the PbP-based text is that we're not limited to "official software" releases. If Markus releases a "final patch," we could still continue editing and updating the XML file and providing new ones to the community.

Thanks everyone, for your suggestions and help.
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:38 PM   #15
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More PbP oddities...

Strike three on a [314-8860] 93mph hopping fastball...
Schilling get's it by him...
No apostrophe.. should be gets. And what's a hopping fastball?

Another of those pitches:
he got him on a [320-9050] nasty splitter splitter!

Missing word "this" between 18 and year
[15-7722] scoring is Ibanez...
Aaron Hill delivers a run-scoring single...
That's RBI number 18 year...

Another missed play commentary: It's one down and one on:
[186-5404] Beckett from the stretch, here's the pitch...
[189-11373] Michaels cuts at it...
That retires the side...
No runs, one hit, no errors.
a runner left on...
Michaels grounded into a 1-6-3 double play, but it wasn't reported.

Ian
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:14 AM   #16
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A couple of instances where fielders are not identified:

[226-11857] this is popped up...
on the infield, left side...
[241-14686] camps under the ball...
[246-12346] and he hauls it in...
one down...

and
[226-11860] it's in the air...
on the infield, left side...
[241-14686] camps under the ball...
[246-12330] he retires Hee Seop Choi with the catch...
three down...

In both cases, Text_Object id="14686" text="[% game fielder of] camps under the ball..." is not getting a return from its token. Perhaps because [% game fielder of] is the fielder nearest to the ball on outfield plays, and both plays above are infield plays?

Several examples of wrong preposition use. Here's one:
Strike three on a [315-8881] exploding 97mph fastball....

Problems such as this occur because prepositions are not restricted, as they should be, to the final Category in a sequential Category call. In the example above, the Category producing the text "Strike three on a" leads via a pitch type token to Category 315. All text_objects in 315 beginning with a vowel will therefore produce the wrong preposition error. A simple cure would be to delete or alter all text-objects in 315 so that none begin with a vowel. A better and less restrictive cure (but needing more work) would be to remove the preposition from the calling Category and add the correct prepositions to the objects in the final Category. So, all Categories producing text such as "Strike three on a" are changed to "Strike three on", and the text objects in 315 become
6406 "a blazing fastball"
6414 "an overpowering heater" etc....

Ian
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Old 06-17-2006, 06:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Go ahead, take third...

Even on ground balls TO THIRD, runners on second almost always move up. That, and there are almost as many stolen bases at third then there are at second.

Thats what ticks me off the most.
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Old 06-19-2006, 09:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Collins
This one just isn't right.....
[168-7871] tapper to Gonzalez at short...
fires to Youkilis at first for the first out of the Toronto half of the bottom of the third inning.
I didn't see the other team play in their half of the bottom of the third inning....

Ian
fixed - thanks!
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Old 06-21-2006, 02:33 PM   #19
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I've heard of "Annie Oakley" as a term for a walk. It's not used much in the U.S. anymore, but it's still common slang in Japanese and other Far East baseball.
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Old 04-08-2007, 05:40 AM   #20
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Haha! The Miss Agnes and Annie Oakley lines are probably going to push me over the edge and make me buy this game. Sometimes unintentional comedy is the best. And give me Vin Scully over Joe Buck anyday. I love the old-timers.
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