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Old 12-27-2008, 05:35 PM   #1
Jersey-Jim
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Tweaks, Adjustments & Ratings Changes

From time to time I've made changes and "tweaks" to fighter ratings that I've shared back and forth through PM's. I thought I'd start posting those changes here. It makes it easier to keep track of all of them. I've been doing this since 1979 and have kept up with all of the changes the game has gone through.

This, creating and modifying fighters, is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game!

The current ratings and all the attention that's given to them are by far the best yet. Here in this. So here we go!
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:38 PM   #2
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TONY ZALE (Middleweight Champion)

Absorb Punishment changed from 2 to 1.

The "Man of Steel" as he was known, had the capacity to absorb all kinds of punishment before succumbing to a TKO or KO defeat. I thought the current rating of 2 didn't reflect that and changed it to a 1.

Last edited by Jersey-Jim; 12-27-2008 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:42 PM   #3
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BATTLING NELSON (Lightweight Champion)

Here's another fighter with an Absorb Punishment rating of 2 that I changed to a 1. My reasoning? Well, as even his game biography states, "He almost seemed SUPERHUMAN in the amount of punishment he could take."

Changing Nelson's Absorb Punishment rating to a 1 will not change his overall rating, but it will allow you to sim he fight results to more realistically reflect the amount of punishment this 135 pounder was able to stand.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:03 PM   #4
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Good stuff, Jim
Thanks for sharing

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Old 12-28-2008, 12:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear View Post
Good stuff, Jim
Thanks for sharing

bear
You're welcome . I'll post my changes as I come back across them.
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:08 AM   #6
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The Original Joe Walcott

Joe Walcott - The Barbados Demon (Welterweight Champion)

Currenty Hitting Power rating: 5
Changed to: 10

Joe had legitimate one punch power. I could have made this rating a 12, but I felt that the 3 point punches were enough to create the balance between accumulated punches and the power of a single shot landed.

Consider the following below:
Police News August 28, 1895 - "Walcott now surpasses any of our welterweights, unless it be (Mysterious) Billy Smith, in the telling execution of a single blow. I do not see how he is to be beaten by any foeman who will give him hit for hit. Any man except a very big man whom he gets his right hand on to fairly and squarely isn't coming up for much more. Walcott in his dumpy, dwarf monitor build, his hardness of flesh, his power of punching and the small surface he offers for return hits, is in a class by himself-different from anything else in the field."


Walcott's manager, Tom O'Rourke, also handled heavyweight contender Sailor Tom Sharkey, whom some historians compare favorably to Rocky Marciano. Sharkey twice went the distance with heavyweight champion Jim Jeffries. O'Rourke once stated, (Fleischer, p. 198-199), "I had to stop Walcott from sparring with the sailor because Joe dumped him on his ear one afternoon in the gym."

The National Police Gazette Oct 27, 1894, supports this view “His neck is 18 inches and his chest expanded is 41 inches, which is remarkable for a man of his weight”

The April 20, 1895 Gazette described Walcott’s power thusly, “His delivery was terrific having the force of a pile driver.” One blow from Walcott was said to be equal “to five” of his opponent’s.

Nat Fleischer called Walcott, (Black Dynamite Vol 3. p 196), "a sawed off Hercules, an abnormally powerful puncher." He also said, "Men who fought him were sorely handicapped...for all his opponents were taller, and their blows usually landed on his shoulders or on top of his granite skull. Probably more men ruined their hands on Walcott than on any other scrapper of that day."

Last edited by Jersey-Jim; 12-28-2008 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:38 AM   #7
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Ray Leonard

Sugar Ray Leonard (Welterweight)

Hitting Power: 9

Change hitting power to: 8 or possibly 7.

I dropped Ray's hitting power to an 8. Ray Leonard is rated as being a boxer/slugger. With Control Factors of 11/11, a counter punching rating of 44, and plenty of 3 point punches... you might even make a case for rating Ray Leonard's power around 7.

I'm staying with the original idea of the hitting power being indicative of "single punch, concussive power."

Ray Leonard was a very sharp puncher, but not a bomber. Like Aaron Pryor who resided on division below at Jr. Welterweight, Leonard stopped opponents with an accumulation of punches as opposed to a single punch.

From this "angle," I see a fighter with a hitting power of 9 and higher possessing the type of power that can have an opponent unconscious before he hits the canvas. The higher the number indicates the frequency that type of punch lands!
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:21 AM   #8
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Keep this coming, Jim
One thing about Barbados Joe. He stopped Joe Choynski, a much larger, and very skilled man. Always felt Joe's HP should not be lower than 8.
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Old 12-28-2008, 12:11 PM   #9
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Hedgemon Lewis (Welterweight Champion)

Greg (alias Mad Bomber) shared this one with me.

Hedgemon is rated as a 5 in the game. Part of overall rating comes his chin ratings which look like this:

Chin vs Knockdown (the old KDR1 rating): 4
Chin vs Knockout: 3
Recovery: 2

The thing is; Hedgemon Lewis was never knocked down.

Here's Greg's version of Lewis which will give your sim a much more accurate version of the real fighter. Poor Lewis' bad chin rating goes all the way back to the 1979 card ratings.:

Hedgemon Lewis

Control Boxer - 9
Control Slugger - 9
Chin KD - 1
Chin KO - 1
Recovery - 1
Res Cuts - 2
Absorb Punish - 3
Killer Instinct - 4
Aggressivness - 8
Endurance - 7
Defense - -2
Fast Starter - 2
On Ropes - 1

PS. He can be TKO'd, but he'll be standing when it happens as opposed to snoozing on the floor!

Last edited by Jersey-Jim; 12-28-2008 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:54 PM   #10
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Absolutely love the fact that you share your logic with these changes, as well as putting the stats here rather than just an attachment! Keep em coming bro!
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:39 PM   #11
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Thanks for the thumbs up .
Here comes a few adjustments for Tony Galento...
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:40 PM   #12
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Tony Galento (Heavyweight)
Tony's hitting power is rated as an 8. That would be a good rating for the post-prime version of Two-Ton.

I upped it to: HP 11
Why?

Joe Louis took punches from some big punchers during his career. Included that of Rocky Marciano who stopped him when he was well past his prime. When asked who hit the hardest, he said, "That little fat man Galento. No one every hurt me with punches like he did. Not even Marciano."

Galento was never the same after getting stopped by Joe Louis which was the first time he'd ever been knocked down in his career. After that fight, he stopped Lou Nova in the 14th round and went straight downhill from there.

Of all the fighters I've met and have shaken hands with, Tony Galento had the biggest hands I've ever seen in my life!

Tony told my grandfather who worked in his and Jersey Joe Walcott's camp as one of the trainers that he gave everything he had against Joe Louis. After that fight, he was done as a top-flight fighter.

Remember, by the time he fought Joe Louis, he already had over 100 fights! And that's with a "face-first, you hit me, I hit you" style. With a defense of 4, a case could be made that it should be a "5", he probably had a TKO rating of 1 in his prime, but I've left it as a 2.

Back in Jersey at the time, Jersey Joe Walcott and others said that he was probably the only fighter in history who could have fought John L. Sullivan toe-to-toe over 20 rounds and have beaten him, he was that durable.
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:29 PM   #13
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I'd think up 2-Tons defense to 5 and lower the TKO to 1 would even him out, as he was one of those take 5 to get one types as well.
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I'd think up 2-Tons defense to 5 and lower the TKO to 1 would even him out, as he was one of those take 5 to get one types as well.
Yeah, you're probably right. The only defense Tony had was his offense. The only time he wasn't getting hit was when his opponent was ducking oncoming punches - which was frequently!

Check out his record at boxrec.com and you'll see how many times he had opponents on the floor! He could be outboxed and he bled around the eyes. He wasn't a bleeder like Chuck Wepner. In over 100 fights he only lost a handful due to cuts. I would say a 3 would be about right.

The thing that made Tony Galento so exciting was, you didn't beat him by standing and trading with him. The only person who succeeded in doing so at his toughest was Louis. By the time Max Baer fought him, he was already on the downside.

It's amazing that he had the stamina he did. Like Baer, he rarely trained hard and drank like there was no tomorrow.
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:11 PM   #15
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great, great stuff Jim.
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:17 PM   #16
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I'm sure it helped Tony to have Whitey Bimstein handling his cuts, and I believe Whitey to be underated in this capacity in the game. Here is my adjusted rating for Whitey.

Swelling 9
Cuts 11
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:42 PM   #17
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Thank you Jim

Thank you Jim for these rating changes. I was thinking of changing Zales rating to a 1 also. I am looking foward to your other changes and the reason for them are interesting also.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:46 PM   #18
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I've made and make so many little tweaks here and there - I'll post them as I come across them.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:40 AM   #19
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Bob Fitzsimmons - Middleweight Ranking

Bob Fitzsimmons (Middleweight)

Ruby Robert is the first fighter to hold world championships in 3 weight divisions. His career lasted an amazing 34 years! Many of his fights were unrecorded and Bob himself claims to have fought over 300 bouts during his career.

His current HP at Middleweight is 11.

I changed his HP to: 13

Why mess with a nice high rating like 11?

Consider these little known facts about the man who held the Heavyweight Championship of the world while basically being a Middleweight.

In 1893 he fought and knocked out 7 fighters in one night! And each of them weighed over 200 lbs! One tipped the scales at 240 and stood 6' 7".

That's Klitschko or Lewis' size in the modern era.

Even if they were "bums" - Fitzsimmons accomplished this fighting in the 160 lb weight range.

If that's not enough, he also defeated Heavyweights such as Peter Maher, Tom Sharkey and Gus Ruhlin. He didn't decision them, either. He knocked them out!

Nat Fleischer who saw all the greats from Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali in his lifetime called Bob Fitzsimmons - P4P the greatest knockout puncher of all time! He picked Fitz over fighters such as Dempsey, Louis, Marciano and Liston. Pound for pound.

Now, imagine that a fighter, who had a physique similar to that of Thomas Hearns, but with an even bigger punch, hitting a 160 lb fighter instead of a 200 + pound man?

His power would have more than likely eclipsed Stanley Ketchel and any other Middleweight you care to think of, before the age of steriods and performing enhancing "vitamins!"

Joe Gans, lightweight champion 1902-1908, stated, Feb. 2, 1908 NY Times, “I consider Bob Fitzsimmons as one of the greatest exponents of straight hitting that the prize ring has ever known. Fitz was a wonderful fighter and all of his straight punches were very effective. Until age set in and his hands went back on him, there were few fighters able to withstand that famous shift of his. When Fitz delivered a blow he carried the whole weight of his body with it.”

Nat Fleischer also said, “Fitzsimmons, who took the crown from Corbett, was not a slugger of the Sullivan type, nor did he approach Corbett in boxing skill. Yet he was the greatest strategist in the ring's history, a man of wonderful vitality, and the most accurate and deadliest hitter of the class. To reach Jim Corbett in the pit of the stomach with knockout force was a feat for a magician, and Fitz was a magician. Where others signally failed, Fitz succeeded through strategic feinting to induce Corbett to raise his guard and open the way for a left shift and a crashing blow to the solar plexus.”

Fitz was as close as they come to being unbeatable as a Middleweight. He starched the Champion - Jack Dempsey the Nonpareil while weighing only 150 pounds.

Fitz stood 5' 11 1/2 inches tall - the same height as Carlos Monzon and enjoyed the physical advantages Monzon did in the Middleweight division and appears to have had an even longer reach. When you combine Fitzsimmon's unbelievable power at 160 along with his defensive ability and boxing skill, he very well may have been the Greatest Middleweight of them all.

Early ring historian Sandy Griswold said in the Dec 24, 1904 National Police Gazette, “He knows all the vulnerable spots of the human anatomy as well as the most erudite surgeon in the business and has a greater variety of effective blows than any fighter who ever lived.”

Fitz won the Light Heavyweight title in 1903 at the age of 40. Those who witnessed Fitzsimmons fight in person came away with opinions that sounded similar to those who saw Ray Robinson fight in his prime.
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:57 AM   #20
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Great changes Jim.
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