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Old 09-03-2015, 01:04 PM   #21
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I also saw my FHM1 purchase as an investment in the future of OOTP's hockey projects.

This game is all I've ever wanted -- if I looked around, I'm sure I could find binders and binders of fictional hockey players, teams and leagues I've been inventing with a pencil and paper since I was ten.
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:16 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Penfold75 View Post
My intention was certainly not to shame anyone. Everyone is entitled to buy the game whenever and however they choose. I guess the point I was making was from my own stand point I didn't agree to test the game or to do research in order to get a free copy of the game. I didn't buy the previous version in the hope of getting the next version for free or for a discount.

I have actually felt pretty privileged to be involved in the testing and researching process. It's something I have never really done for a game before but I am a hockey nut and I think hockey fans have been crying out for a really good Hockey Management Game (and FHM2 is it).

I,in my own way, want to support FHM2 and the development of future versions. Over the years I have spent hundreds of dollars and pounds on games at full price that have been absolute rubbish. I have tested the new version of FHM and in my honest opinion it is well worth spending the full price on and that's what I intend to do.

Well done to the FHM Development team and thanks for involving me
This is the same for me with OOTP Beta, I still purchase a copy and give it as a gift. Never know, might get someone else hooked on the game
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:50 PM   #23
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This is the same for me with OOTP Beta, I still purchase a copy and give it as a gift. Never know, might get someone else hooked on the game
Never thought of it like that as my Brother in law is a hockey nut as well and he knows a lot of people who love hockey. Could gift him a copy and get him to spread the word. I told him about FHM2014 and I don't think he was impressed with a lot of the comments he saw but FHM2 is so so so much better
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Old 09-03-2015, 02:37 PM   #24
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First and foremost, we are very, very thankful for any help and support we got in the past, present and (hopefully) future.

From the beginning it was our wish to give something back to this great community and of course the most important thing is a good game that is fun to play from the beginning and a good basis for the future. So I made it very clear this time, that I don't want any pre-order or Early Access stuff. The game is ready for some time now and we test/tweak the hell out of it for the last months (and the coming weeks until release) while our great researcher team works on the 2015/16 database. So the game you can start buying later this month is a finished product, that is (hopefully) fun to play for everyone.

We also discussed to give all FHM 1 customers a discount for the second game but technically that is difficult. We sell the game through eSellerate and there we don't have any complete lists with former customers (at least not in a form that would work) and we sell through Steam. In Steam, it is theoretically possible to link it with another game (e.g. FHM 1) but not out of the box so Valve needs to set it up on a case by case basis. They told us that they had some unsuccessful tries in the past and don't want to do it at the moment.

So giving out a discount to everyone was the last option. And I think it is much better that way (everyone gets it) then punish the loyal fans by not giving a discount at all.

If someone needs longer then a week to decide, just wait for one of the sales later in the season to try it out. By then, everyone should get a pretty good opinion on the web about the game.
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:39 PM   #25
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Sounds like you guys examined all the options to give FHM1 buyers a discount and I admire OOTP for doing that. Giving a discount to everyone will make sure a lot of the people who bought the first version buy it again and then hopefully they will write/post about how magic the game is to convince the others to buy it again, Also it will probably bring in a lot of new customers which will be awesome. The main thing is that people have just got to buy this game as I can't say it enough this is a far superior game to FHM1
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:02 PM   #26
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Why would they think they lost that audience?

And the 25% discount for the first week or so is a pretty nice inducement.

I bought the original shortly after it was out. I'll buy this one on 9/28. Looking ahead, not backwards
Thats BS, I have been buying OOTP baseball for years and there is ALWAYS an early discount regardless if you are returning or new customer.
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
First and foremost, we are very, very thankful for any help and support we got in the past, present and (hopefully) future.

From the beginning it was our wish to give something back to this great community and of course the most important thing is a good game that is fun to play from the beginning and a good basis for the future. So I made it very clear this time, that I don't want any pre-order or Early Access stuff. The game is ready for some time now and we test/tweak the hell out of it for the last months (and the coming weeks until release) while our great researcher team works on the 2015/16 database. So the game you can start buying later this month is a finished product, that is (hopefully) fun to play for everyone.

We also discussed to give all FHM 1 customers a discount for the second game but technically that is difficult. We sell the game through eSellerate and there we don't have any complete lists with former customers (at least not in a form that would work) and we sell through Steam. In Steam, it is theoretically possible to link it with another game (e.g. FHM 1) but not out of the box so Valve needs to set it up on a case by case basis. They told us that they had some unsuccessful tries in the past and don't want to do it at the moment.

So giving out a discount to everyone was the last option. And I think it is much better that way (everyone gets it) then punish the loyal fans by not giving a discount at all.

If someone needs longer then a week to decide, just wait for one of the sales later in the season to try it out. By then, everyone should get a pretty good opinion on the web about the game.
After spending hundreds of dollars over the years with your superb baseball games (not sarcastic.. they are unparalelled) the fact FHM was a dud and in the end we only get the same standard discount every other game of yours gets.. it insulting.. you have gotten the last dollar you'll ever get from me or my son who also purchased game.
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:11 PM   #28
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Why would a company search out an encourage people to get refunds? People who asked about a refund were able to get one.

The company sent out updates and fixes. That's their job. How well they did that job is open for interpretation.

Many will be willing to writ eit off as growing pains and move on.
I never knew of discount and would bloody well love one. Of the hundreds of games I have bought over the years, for PC, Xbox and Playstation, this was easily the most disappointing.
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Gagnon30 View Post
Thats BS, I have been buying OOTP baseball for years and there is ALWAYS an early discount regardless if you are returning or new customer.
OOTP baseball offers a discount for pre-orders each year. This is not a pre-order, meaning the (understandably) skeptical customer can read reviews and get some word-of-mouth feedback during the first week and then make a decision, while still having the discount available.

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Originally Posted by Gagnon30 View Post
After spending hundreds of dollars over the years with your superb baseball games (not sarcastic.. they are unparalelled) the fact FHM was a dud and in the end we only get the same standard discount every other game of yours gets.. it insulting.. you have gotten the last dollar you'll ever get from me or my son who also purchased game.
Would you be happier if the game was offered as a free upgrade, which would likely mean no profits, and not much chance of an FHM3? That's a rhetorical question. I know your answer

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I never knew of discount and would bloody well love one. Of the hundreds of games I have bought over the years, for PC, Xbox and Playstation, this was easily the most disappointing.
FHM was quite disappointing, you won't get many arguments against that. Let it go and move on. And I'd suggest you switch to decaf.
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:31 PM   #30
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Thats BS, I have been buying OOTP baseball for years and there is ALWAYS an early discount regardless if you are returning or new customer.
Difference is you don't have to pay early to get discount. You can actually watch reviews for a few days first. That's different than baseball game, which I have also been buying for a decade now. And that's not BS, so calm down.
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Old 09-03-2015, 11:18 PM   #31
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Yes

going to buy on September 28th.


the end.
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Old 09-04-2015, 09:34 AM   #32
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Would you be happier if the game was offered as a free upgrade, which would likely mean no profits, and not much chance of an FHM3? That's a rhetorical question. I know your answer
Really, this is the most important point. It's understandable people were unhappy with FHM2014, everyone was including the devs. But to expect everyone who purchased it to get it free, or for dirt cheap is ridiculous. Yeah, you may get your game and feel vindicated, but then the devs have to close shop because they make no profit on something they poured 2 years into crafting. No more FHM going forward... but yay, we got it cheap/free!

I've said it before but they are doing the right thing by letting the discount stand for a week so those people who were upset have time to read reviews and hear feedback from Day 1 purchasers to see if it's worth it. And if they still aren't sure they can wait for the sales sure to come later. In the meantime, they can make a profit and start building towards FHM3.
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:10 AM   #33
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After spending hundreds of dollars over the years with your superb baseball games (not sarcastic.. they are unparalelled) the fact FHM was a dud and in the end we only get the same standard discount every other game of yours gets.. it insulting.. you have gotten the last dollar you'll ever get from me or my son who also purchased game.
We offer a much smaller pre-order discount for OOTP, we never had anything like the 25% we offer for FHM 2. So, nothing insulting here at all. If you feel that way, I am sorry, but it's your choice to move on...

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Old 09-04-2015, 10:12 AM   #34
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Really, this is the most important point. It's understandable people were unhappy with FHM2014, everyone was including the devs. But to expect everyone who purchased it to get it free, or for dirt cheap is ridiculous. Yeah, you may get your game and feel vindicated, but then the devs have to close shop because they make no profit on something they poured 2 years into crafting. No more FHM going forward... but yay, we got it cheap/free!

I've said it before but they are doing the right thing by letting the discount stand for a week so those people who were upset have time to read reviews and hear feedback from Day 1 purchasers to see if it's worth it. And if they still aren't sure they can wait for the sales sure to come later. In the meantime, they can make a profit and start building towards FHM3.
This.
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Old 09-05-2015, 03:42 PM   #35
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I also saw my FHM1 purchase as an investment in the future of OOTP's hockey projects.

This game is all I've ever wanted -- if I looked around, I'm sure I could find binders and binders of fictional hockey players, teams and leagues I've been inventing with a pencil and paper since I was ten.
This has been my feeling all along. OOTP had its own growing pains, so I expected something similar for FHM1. When it wasn't very playable, I simply set it aside and waited . . . cuz I knew any game under the Markus umbrella would eventually become good.

And as others in this thread are doing, I am willing to pay full price for FHM2 in the hopes that the franchise can be successful and continue its development.
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Old 09-05-2015, 03:59 PM   #36
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FHM 1 was never fully developed. It was never playable. No one can call it that. To expect people to pay for it to any degree is ridiculous. I bought FHM 1 in beta expecting it would be fully developed. It never was. I fully feel that those users who bought the game before it's full release should be given FHM 2 because the first game never left beta. The fact that anyone thinks that users should buy this game is ridiculous. FHM 1 should NEVER have been released with a price tag. That was the mistake OOTP made. The 25% off discount is a joke. I've often considering buying an OOTP game (not FHM) but based on this never will. Good thing we have SI and EHM who handled this correctly. Does OOTP know that SI is giving EHM:EA users the new EHM game when it fully releases?
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:06 PM   #37
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FHM 1 was never fully developed. It was never playable. No one can call it that. To expect people to pay for it to any degree is ridiculous. I bought FHM 1 in beta expecting it would be fully developed. It never was. I fully feel that those users who bought the game before it's full release should be given FHM 2 because the first game never left beta. The fact that anyone thinks that users should buy this game is ridiculous. FHM 1 should NEVER have been released with a price tag. That was the mistake OOTP made. The 25% off discount is a joke. I've often considering buying an OOTP game (not FHM) but based on this never will. Good thing we have SI and EHM who handled this correctly. Does OOTP know that SI is giving EHM:EA users the new EHM game when it fully releases?
Your loss missing out on OOTP and the upcoming FHM. Some of us have had untold hours of enjoyment from OOTP over the past 10 years or more. I fully expect FHM to do the same. Writing off a new game and a successful existing game because of one flawed release is shortsighted.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:09 PM   #38
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Your loss missing out on OOTP and the upcoming FHM. Some of us have had untold hours of enjoyment from OOTP over the past 10 years or more. I fully expect FHM to do the same. Writing off a new game and a successful existing game because of one flawed release is shortsighted.
I bought FHM 1 while it was in beta (June 22 2013) in good faith expecting the game to be developed into a playable game. It never was. Why would I spend my hard earned money supporting a company that does not hold up their end of that good faith relationship. OOTP is at fault here for how they have handled this.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:18 PM   #39
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Here is an idea to consider for the OOTP/FHM team. I get that you want to be able to capture revenue from FHM 2. Here's my solution.

Upgrade FHM 1 to the same game as FHM 2 for the date of go live. Then don't offer any upgrades from there. We then get a playable game for our FHM 1 money, but we don't get whatever FHM 2 improvements there are from there. We can then decide if we want to spend money on FHM 2.

It would be a show of good faith to everyone who showed good faith to OOTP/FHM and spent money on the first game.
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:20 PM   #40
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The main thing is that people have just got to buy this game as I can't say it enough this is a far superior game to FHM1
Come on, with two years passed since the release of FHM1 nothing less should be the case
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