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Old 09-18-2018, 09:02 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Cole View Post
You implied that OOTPD doesn't care about the customer and only cares about making sales, which again, is completely ridiculous.

I implied they need to sell the game. If it does care about the customer then why does it not wait a month and make sure MP is in there then?
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:53 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by thefatcat View Post
I implied they need to sell the game. If it does care about the customer then why does it not wait a month and make sure MP is in there then?

Theoretical for you... let's say they would have everything ready including MP by Jan 2018 .... Yet they could have the game complete except for MP by December 2018.

One way or the other those who want MP have to wait until January, yet those who don't can play the game when it is ready in December. Why should it be delayed for everyone?



And the number of people who play OOTPD games solo is vastly, vastly more than MP players (this isn't just conjecture either, the company has data that supports this).

You are suggesting they should punish the vast majority of players by delaying the game, in order to satisfy the minority of people who want MP. You also seemingly fail to realize that if the game even without MP comes out sooner, it is better in the long run too for everyone as it will then be tested by hundreds and hundreds of people, bugs fixed, improvements made, patches etc, that will benefit MP players when that is rolled out.

And just to show I'm not completely biased towards SP - I am actually really looking forward to playing in a FoF9 MP league when it is rolled out. I also realize logically it makes more sense to release the game when it is ready if it contains what the vast majority of your customer base plays (single player).
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:57 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Cole View Post
Theoretical for you... let's say they would have everything ready including MP by Jan 2018 .... Yet they could have the game complete except for MP by December 2018.

.

Christmas sales hey, but it's not about the money is it
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:01 AM   #84
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I never painted OoTP as a corporate monster. Well thanks for the replies if you are correct i think the MP community certainty knows were it stands now
Dude, you totally did.

"Jim cared about us when he was Solesismic, i quite understand now that the decision makers at OoTP probably care about making money!"

How the hell else is that to be taken?

Anyway, isn't this all moot? Jim will post something this week, which will answer all our questions. If mp isn't in the initial release of the game, so be it. I doubt they'll hold off until FOF10 to implement it, but if so ....... well that sucks.

No point in getting all up in arms until we know what's in and what's not.
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:03 AM   #85
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Christmas sales hey, but it's not about the money is it
The dates I picked were completely arbitrary and the point of most everything I've been trying to say has evidently gone over your head.

No one has even said MP WON'T be in FOF9. Everyone needs to show a little patience and stop taking the information we have been given as an affront to the existing FOF MP community.
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:12 AM   #86
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The dates I picked were completely arbitrary and the point of most everything I've been trying to say has evidently gone over your head.
.

You kind of walked into that one, made me laugh
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:30 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Cole View Post
Theoretical for you... let's say they would have everything ready including MP by Jan 2018 .... Yet they could have the game complete except for MP by December 2018.

One way or the other those who want MP have to wait until January, yet those who don't can play the game when it is ready in December. Why should it be delayed for everyone?



And the number of people who play OOTPD games solo is vastly, vastly more than MP players (this isn't just conjecture either, the company has data that supports this).

You are suggesting they should punish the vast majority of players by delaying the game, in order to satisfy the minority of people who want MP. You also seemingly fail to realize that if the game even without MP comes out sooner, it is better in the long run too for everyone as it will then be tested by hundreds and hundreds of people, bugs fixed, improvements made, patches etc, that will benefit MP players when that is rolled out.

And just to show I'm not completely biased towards SP - I am actually really looking forward to playing in a FoF9 MP league when it is rolled out. I also realize logically it makes more sense to release the game when it is ready if it contains what the vast majority of your customer base plays (single player).
He is just trolling you, don't worry much. You will get to know the FOF community too

I feel you guys gave a perfect explanation about what might or might not be coming and the reasons for it. Many thanks to keep us updated.

And for who doesn't know the OOTPD team, they listen to the community and adapt to it. I play OOTP and FHM myself and the hard work and ears in the community that this guys put in the games is north of Awesome.

Again thanks for all the OOTPD team and Jim to keep us updated.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:52 AM   #88
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I've been around OOTP since version 5 which to me was one of the most solid stable versions there has been. I find SP very boring, whether it's OOTP or FOF, but Markus has identified a nitch, I would probably do the same if I were him. KEEP this in mind, he sales many more copies of his games to the SP community than the MP community. He has to A)sale as many copies of his game as possible, B) He has to make some money, and sadly the MP community isn't his bread and butter. It's sad that OOTP has chosen this direction for their initial release, but it doesn't surprise me. Just take a look at the forum and see how many posts there are under OOTP general discussion and FOF general discussion, that says it all. FOF isn't a priority with OOTP at the moment. They will probably roll out a game around Christmas time make a bit of cash, and maybe, just maybe continue the work on FOF. As I stated before they have a business model that's been successful with OOTP, and I don't expect anything different with FOF. The SP community WANTS an editor and it's coming, Markus isn't stupid he listens to the SP community as he should, many more sales are made there than MP. Expect patches and new releases of FOF to be geared towards the SP crowd. I've seen it in OOTP. Yes he rolls out small updates and small features for MP, but we've been asking for things in MP over the years and are still waiting. I for one can't control the direction FOF will go, but I have an idea. I was skeptical with this merger when it was announced for the above reasons, and I still am. I do feel that Markus will release a solid FOF game, more geared towards SP than anything else. There is a question to be answered and hopefully it will be answered soon. Is this the vision that Jim had when he merged with OOTP, if so then it is about the Bottom Line as Fatcat stated. Oh and one more thing, in life it mostly always is about the greenbacks!

Last edited by FlexD; 09-18-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:15 AM   #89
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We decided to bring the planned forum forward in light of recent events. It is fully operational from today.

This forum is with the MP gamer in mind specifically. Somewhere where the MP community can get together and discuss FOF, and any leagues they choose, as equals.

Hopefully this should greatly reduce the butting of heads, and we can stick to our own side of track.

http://notfofc.proboards.com/
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:35 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Nature Boy View Post
We decided to bring the planned forum forward in light of recent events. It is fully operational from today.

This forum is with the MP gamer in mind specifically. Somewhere where the MP community can get together and discuss FOF, and any leagues they choose, as equals.

Hopefully this should greatly reduce the butting of heads, and we can stick to our own side of track.

http://notfofc.proboards.com/
The football sim community is already small enough, why bother trying to further segregate it?

Once FOF 9 is actually released, the official forums on this website will have everything you have here (places to talk about the game, places to talk about online leagues, suggestions/wishlists, etc). It also makes infinitely more sense for people to actually be conversing and suggesting things on the official forums where they know the developers are actively reading/looking.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:45 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Cole View Post
The football sim community is already small enough, why bother trying to further segregate it?

Once FOF 9 is actually released, the official forums on this website will have everything you have here (places to talk about the game, places to talk about online leagues, suggestions/wishlists, etc). It also makes infinitely more sense for people to actually be conversing and suggesting things on the official forums where they know the developers are actively reading/looking.
Sounds great. But as said previously, the moderator likes to run it like a dictatorship. We have seen it before over at FOFC and it will no doubt happen again
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:15 PM   #92
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Sounds great. But as said previously, the moderator likes to run it like a dictatorship. We have seen it before over at FOFC and it will no doubt happen again
What he said. If a neutral ran the forums here we wouldn't need to split. We asked for that to happen, but we were denied. Most of us have been playing for over 10 years, we know the score. It won't work, and constant arguments is not good for anyone.

We come from the land where our MP leagues are full. You guys get the new players here when FOF9 gets MP, so you will be fine. I think it is better for everyone.

Last edited by Nature Boy; 09-18-2018 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:43 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Nature Boy View Post
We decided to bring the planned forum forward in light of recent events. It is fully operational from today.

This forum is with the MP gamer in mind specifically. Somewhere where the MP community can get together and discuss FOF, and any leagues they choose, as equals.

Hopefully this should greatly reduce the butting of heads, and we can stick to our own side of track.

http://notfofc.proboards.com/

Thanks for taking the time and effort to establish this forum. I too have been frustrated with one of the moderators here and on FOFC.

Last edited by TribeFan19; 09-18-2018 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:12 AM   #94
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I won't be buying the game until MP is a part for it. Can't imagine I will be the only one either. We will just continue with FOF8.

Any idea whether there will be a FOF8 to FOF9 conversion available for MP leagues?
Well and I won't be buying a game that doesn't have solid SP game play either and since i don't play MP I couldn't care less about that aspect of the game. There are people on both sides of the fence.

Last edited by redfox000; 09-19-2018 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:17 AM   #95
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Well so far it looks you're the only one staying who's posted
Not true. If the game has no MP that is fine by me and will still buy it since I don't do MP.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:58 AM   #96
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Well and I won't be buying a game that doesn't have solid SP game play either and since i don't play MP I couldn't care less about that aspect of the game. There are people on both sides of the fence.

Unfortunately for the MP crowd, there are more who feel the same as redfox000, and that's not good for those of us who play in MP leagues. We do have the option to stick with FOF8 or even FOF7.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:27 PM   #97
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i must be missing something in this thread. if there's two options for the initial FOF9 release -- buggy SP + MP or robust SP, the preferred choice should be a no-brainer, right?
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:43 PM   #98
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i must be missing something in this thread. if there's two options for the initial FOF9 release -- buggy SP + MP or robust SP, the preferred choice should be a no-brainer, right?
Especially since people will then bash the product because it is buggy and it will get bad PR, etc. This all seems very logical to me, but that is just this mans opinion.

By the way, I will also say that I, too, am a developer and have been for over 25 years.

Last edited by redfox000; 09-19-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:47 PM   #99
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Especially since people will then bash the product because it is buggy and it will get bad PR, etc. This all seems very logical to me, but that is just this mans opinion.

By the way, I will also say that I, too, am a developer and have been for over 25 years.

Why does everyone believe the MP game will be buggy if it comes out in the initial release?
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:01 PM   #100
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Why does everyone believe the MP game will be buggy if it comes out in the initial release?
It's safe to assume that at this point, some pieces of FOF9 are ready to roll, or extremely close to being so. Some other things, including MP, either need more work or haven't been implemented at all. Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that MP is the #5 priority on their list of things they want to have in the game, but haven't completed yet. (That's just a number I'm making up; don't read anything into it.) The fact that the dev team has said that MP may or may not make the initial release would mean that they're confident about that they'll have time to add, say, the first three features on their list, iffy about getting to features 4-7, and doubtful about 8-10. (They've promised a 2018 release, so they're dealing with a timeline, too.) To hit the deadline, they can either release a solid version with features 1-3 only, or they can rush to add 4-6. Because they're rushed, those would be the features most likely to be buggy.


(The ordinal nature of this is an oversimplification, by the way. It's always possible that priority #9 makes it into the initial release list while priority #4 doesn't, because they estimate that #4 would take 200 hours of development time and needs 2 extra weeks of testing, while priority #9 is a smaller feature that can be added with 8 hours of dev time after the beta has already begun.)
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